Tua vs Holyfield circa '96-'97?

Maskaev was on his bicycle and he was pedaling harder than Lance Armstrong.

Lennox was also utilizing his BMX with everything he had when he fought an injured Tua but when Lewis faced Tyson he stood right in front of him on and brutalized him with his size and power but many here still refuse to accept the fact that Tua was the most feared fighter amongst his professional heavyweight boxing PEERS. Why? Unlike Tyson he was mentally stable and physically sturdy. The whole world saw that Tyson could be physically hurt and knocked out in the Buster Douglas fight, 6 years after this fight Tyson's easily deterred mind was exposed to the world by Holyfield. Unlike Tyson, Tua has never even been close to getting knocked out, for opponents facing Tua, there was not even a slight HOPE of knocking him out AND you have to be wary of the single most dangerous punch in all of boxing for a full 12 round fight? The mental strain of constantly worrying about getting hit by the most murderous puncher in all of boxing is what REALLY broke his opponents in the later rounds and of course the come forward pressure and the physical punishment he often dished out over the course of a fight.

 

-I'm not sure what to believe or take from sparring stories.

-A younger Evander getting sloppy and tagged by a third string sub doesn't concern me. I would be concerned if Cooper consistently landed the left hook, and proved to be something Holyfield was encapble of guarding.

-If Evander gets wobbled, I still have my doubts about Tua finishing the job. Holyfield has got stunned by Bowe, Foreman, Tyson, Cooper, Moorer, Lewis..etc. I don't think Tua is going to be the exception. This isn't even a knock on Tua, Evander is simply one of the best at recovering and working his way out of danger. I remember a thread a while back, I stated Louis is the only guy I would be completely confident in finishing off a hurt Holyfield.

-I don't know about that, looked like typical Turtlenator too me. He wasn't carrying Rahman, Izon, Oquendo..etc.

 

Good point on Holyfield's recuperative power, though it didn't help him with Bowe... and Tua hit a lot harder than Bowe.

I don't think Holyfield was anything less than prime at the time he fought Cooper. He was 29 years old, had just beaten Holmes, Douglas and Foreman and was on his way to his great trilogy with Bowe.

Again, I think a fit and focused Tua makes this interesting... not the 245 pound fatso that fought Rahman and Oquendo.

 

-It helped him quite a bit against Bowe, bar the third match when he was proven to be ill and dead on his feet as early as the 5th round, yet still gave Bowe the first knockdown of his career and went down swinging. His comeback in Round 10 of the first Bowe fight is legendary, damn near inhuman Maricano level nuttiness.

-Again, that's speculation we can't exactly prove. Bowe demonstrated one punch power against lower tier contenders and fringe fighters, the same as Tua.

-Tua seemed to get in funks regardless of how much he weighed. And Rahman was also obese in that second match, heaviest of his career, near 270 I think. At least 245 was normal for Tua in early 00s, Rahman should have been a sitting duck in that fight. Instead it was a slower repeat of the first, minus the BS stoppage, a BS decision instead.

 

So we have another old butthurt Marciano worshipper amongst our ranks who hates David Tua bacause of the fact that the much heavier, harder hitting Tua would MURDER his childhood hero Marciano in the first round.

 

And hegrant's alt takes the bait. Predictable and pathetic. :-(

What is up with this alt craze, does anyone have balls anymore? Or is this their only way to get attention, realizing their regular accounts are being disregarded and ignored by the object of their obsessions?

 

I tend to think of Bowe as being pretty overrated which was ultimately exposed in his performances against Golota, who was a serious B-rater. But together, Bowe and Holyfield, two flawed fighters, made beautiful music.

Tua didn't just KO second tier guys, he KO'd three former or future champs. Brutally. You can start with the same old excuses, that a 28 year old Maskaev was green, or a Ruiz (who had had more fights than Tua) was green or a Moorer (who was 34 and went on to Jirov among others) was beyond shot... just about the time you can admit that Charles and Walcott were past it.

 

-Well, if your are going to write my posts for me there is no reason to continue with this.

-Funny you missed my post where I actually said Tua would KO Moorer anyway.

 

Im 28 years old, if thats OLD, then you must be about 12? which i assume you must be due to your lack of knowledge and over emphasis on size and punch power, things which Holyfield consistenly defeated throughout his career.

You expect me to accept that Tuas weight was much more beneficial to him than the size of Bowe was to him and then pass this off as scientific literature? GTFOH.

You keep telling people who disagree with you to actually lace a pair, to me it seems your a kid whose been to a few sessions of training and are passing yourself off as some sort of Eddie Futch now. when your clearly not.

Sparring doesnt mean squat.

Bruno got the better of Tyson in sparring as did Trevor Berbick.
Ruddock beat Lewis in the amateurs
Biggs beat Bowe up in sparring.

Sparring doesnt mean ****.

Your overrating Tua to the extremes when the guys 2 best ones are Moorer and Ruiz, hardly something to brag about.

Earnier Shavers was a greater fighter than Tua and hit harder, because DURABLE (the key word here is durable) fighters state Earnier hit hard, fighters such as Ali and Holmes.

Heres an interesting fact for you, David Tua never stopped any durable fighter in his whole career. See my previous post, all he did was stop guys whod been stopped before and after they fought Tua and most of them were kod quicker by other fighters.

Take that to the bank.

 

Better finisher yes, Tyson had lost that fire by then.

However that sparring video doesnt say much, Holyfield was practising movement, angles and clinching which is what he used against Tyson, if anything Tua was trying a bit harder than Holy was from that video.

One fighter was practising for an upcoming fight, the other fighter was there to fight aggressive.

All this Tua had a bigger punch than Tyson is complete bollocks

Who did Tua actually beat that was durable? Nobody. Moorer was always glass jawed and Ruiz admittedly got caught cold, so i give Tua that.

Tua was the Deontay Wilder of the 90s, yes he knocked out lots of cab drivers and 3rd tier heavys like Izon, unlikely Wilder (who hasnt stepped up yet), whenever Tua stepped up he was beat.

Tyson beat and destroyed DURABLE heavyweights.

Tua would lose to a lot of the guys from the 80's because most of them were pretty good boxers.

If Mike Tyson at his best with his rapid fire combinations and Nucelear powered fists couldnt put guys like Tucker away, David plod plod Tua aint.

Tua is one dimensial, whereas Tyson could slug it out, he could also outbox guys.

Tony Tubbs was doing well against Tyson until he started trading with him, Tubbs according to some, outboxed Bowe. And Tucker and Holmes could comfortably outbox Tua.
Berbick was experienced enough to handle Tua.
Biggs is question mark because if he boxed Tua like he did against Tyson in the first round (and kept it up) he could beat Tua. But most likely Tua would catch him late.
imagine the Tua of the Barrett fight, vs Lennox Lewis.
Tua Vs Ruddock would be 50/50.
Bruno would outbox Tua until mid to late rounds where Tua probably catches up with him.
Truth Williams was always open for a left hook.
Buster Douglas beats the living **** out of Tua.
Botha would probably outbox Tua until if/when he gets caught.
Golotoa had all the skills in the world, but somewhere in the fight, he would fold.

Its hard to pick a guy like Tua to defeat better boxers from the past, when he failed to do so against guys in his own era.
I also feel Tuas KO and power is ever so slightly overrated. Majority of his Kos are over frigging cab drivers, cleaners and toilet attendants.

Lets look at some of Tuas top Ko's
John Ruiz, i give him this, it was an excellent Ko over a guy who would become 2 time champion and would never be kod again until his final fight (Haye)
David Izon - good KO over a decent fighter, but it took him 12 to do it.
Oleg Maskaev - had already been Kod in one by Mcall of all people, took Tua 11 to do it. Would go on to be kod 5-6 more times, each one quicker than Tua
Rahman - first loss was to Tua, took Tua 10 to pull it off.
Fres Oquendo - Took Tua 9 rounds.
Michael Moorer seems to be the biggest name on the list, he was way past his best when he fought Tua and Tua hd him out of there in first round.

His highlight Kos against his top opponents all came late in the fight and the above mentioned are hardly the murderers row, whereas Tyson was getting alot of these guys out of there and quick.

Mitch Green - Tyson couldnt Ko this guy, Mitch Green boxed on for a further 20 years after facing Tyson, no one ever stopped him.
Smith - stunk the fight out so bad and did his best to hug and hold to make it to the final bell, one of the worst fights ever.
Tillis - Tysons first step up, he was still green and fighting an experienced journeyman whod been in with Biggs, Coetzee, Frazier, Witherspoon, Williams, Page, Thomas, Shavers and Weaver before facing Tyson.
Tucker - the only guy who fought both Lewis/Tyson (apart from Holyfield) and was stopped by neither, he also fought much better versions of both Tyson and Lewis than Holy did. Between them Tyson/Lewis Kod Bruno, Botha, Biggs, Golota and Ruddock.
Berbick - Tyson was the first and only guy to KO Berbick, he boxed on for another 14 years and was never stopped again.
Thomas - Tyson was the first guy to Ko Thomas
Holmes - Tyson was the first and only guy to ever Ko Holmes and Holmes boxed into his 50s
Spinks - Undefeated and Tyson was the first and only guy to KO Spinks.
Biggs - was undefeated and Tyson was the first person to Ko him
Tubbs - Tyson was the first person to Ko Tubbs and he did it in 2 rounds, something Bowe struggled to pull off.
Mathis Jr - fought Bowe, Biggs, Williams. Tyson was the first to stop him
Savarese - Fought Holyfield, Foreman, Izon, Grant, Buster Douglas. Tyson was the only one who stopped him in one round.
Ruddock - has a controversial loss to David Jaco apparently the fight was stopped due to him having an asthma attack, Tyson was the first guy to properly TKO Ruddock.
Etienne - would go on to beat Brewster (who beat you know who), he fought Valuev, Oquendo, Botha, Brock. Tyson was the only one who Kod him in 1rd
Stewart -fought Foreman, Holyfield, Moorer, Maskaev. Tyson was the only one who stopped him in one round.
Bruno - lost to punchers like Witherspoon, Lewis and Smith. Tyson stopped him twice, both times quicker than the rest.
Williams - fought Tillis, Holmes, Ferguson, Weaver, Cooper, Morrison, Berbick, Witherspoon, Bruno. Tyson was the only one to KO him in one round

Tysons Kos were much more impressive against much better opposition. He did it in devastating fashion to a lot of guys whod never been stopped before and some were never stopped again.

Can Tua compare to that? No he simply cant.

 

Right, Bowe is overrated on his performances against Golota, despite winning the championship twice, only ever losing to Holyfield. But your pumping up Tua who was exposed every time he stepped up and even in his biggest wins aside from Moorer/Ruiz, he was always behind in the fight and didnt win squat in his whole career?

Put it this way, Riddick Bowe beat the **** out of Holyfield, something Lewis, Tyson, Foreman and Holmes couldnt do. But Lewis did take Tua to school. He made Tua look like a fool and then he walked into a ringpost like a complete moron

At the end of the day, one guy is a 2 time champ, the other guy is just another name, a coulda shoulda woulda and boxing history is full of such. Earnie Shavers was greater than Tua.

 

It just so happens that the 2 guys that failed to last 1 minute combined against Tua also happened to DEFEAT your beloved hero Holyfield and they're hardly something to brag about? What does that say about Holyfield who got beaten and dropped to the canvas by Ruiz who was destroyed in 19 seconds and almost got killed by David Tua. Moorer, again another fighter who defeated Holyfield took a nice nap on the ropes a mere 30 seconds into the match thanks to the generous courtesy of Mr. Tua's right hand.

All David Tua did was stop guys who had been stopped before? You should really READ the facts before you make false statements such as that one and make yourself look even more simple minded. David Izon was NEVER knocked out before he fought Tua, John Ruiz was NEVER stopped before he fought Tua, matter of fact Ruiz was stopped only 2 times out of the 55 professional bouts he entered and the 2nd time was his last fight at 38 years of age. You just continue to make yourself look bad by constantly showcasing your lack of critical thinking and fact gathering. I strongly suggest you stop trying to debate with me because you lack the intelligence and knowledge to do it.

 

Holyfield fought Moorer twice, both versions were much better than the version who fought your boyfriend Tua. And by the time he fought Ruiz he was about 40 years old. Whats Tuas excuse for being dropped by Barrett then, lets please hear it?

Hell an OLD Holyfield performed much better than Tua did against Lewis.

Thats all Tuas really got going for him hasnt he? he was the first to Ko Izon, i bet he can hang that picture proudly on his empty wall, seeing as theres nothing else on there. But hate to break it to ya, Fres Oquendo, Joe Mesi and Michael Grant all Kod him much quicker than Tua did.

You keep giving me bull**** baseless opinions and im giving you cold hard facts, when grown folks talk, kids like you shut keep it shut

:hi:

 

Similar pattern is, Tua was rubbish, yes he carried his power late against 3rd and 2nd tier fighters, but against the best in this case Holyfield, Tua simply cant cut it.

The facts are Tua can be outboxed, Tua carries his power late, Holyfield has a granite chin, beat better fighters, harder hitters and has good recovery skills.

Tua hasnt got a prayer against Holyfield. Infact, Holy even beats him in THAT department too

 

Hey buddy. I know you're a very special guy and everything so try to follow my reasoning here but don't try too hard or you might just end up with a brain cramp but the funny thing about facts is that they're only facts if they're VERIFIABLE TRUTH. If a simple minded guy like you makes a "factual statement" and these are your exact words by the way: "Heres an interesting fact for you, all he did was stop guys whod been stopped before" and somebody with some fact gathering skills verifies that Tua has indeed stopped fighters who were never stopped before they faced him. Then your "cold hard fact" becomes a FALSE STATEMENT, which means that it's NOT a "cold hard fact" anymore but a false statement which makes the simple minded author of the statement look like he isn't the brightest bulb in the basement.