Muhammad Ali at his best vs. Wladimir Klitschko at his best, who wins?

Byrd and Brewster. Nothing else needs to be said. :yep

 

that is the most idiotic uneducated statement i have ever heard,you credibility is zero

 

:rofl

 

vitali was destroying byrd, got hurt. wladimir killed him twice. wlad was killing Brewster, ran out of gas. destroyed him in the rematch.

 

atsch

 

ali was a run and grab guy, his whole second carnation. without power, btw, and a poster child for dirty tactics.

 

For the purpose of this thread we're suppose ro be talking about the best Ali. That wasn't the best version of Ali and he still beat an all time great. When a Klit met an all time great at his worst he still lost. Just sayin...

 

Vits, weighing 40lbs more and with 8" in height only landed 8 more punches the entire fight. So much for destroying. And if Wlad ran out of gas against Brewster, what going top happen when he gets in the ring with a with a 15 round fighter like Frazier who wouldn't stay down for Foreman? :nono

 

probably death. frazier wasn't even an average athlete. see the superstars. his humiliation kept ali out of the competition thereafter.

 

came in dead last in every athletic event. against snow skiers, soccer players, and other athletes of the time. best athlete of the sixties without a doubt, was jim brown.

 

Athletes are guys who play sports. No one plays boxing. Frazier was a warrior. If the opposite were true Jim Brown, who I agree was the best athlete of the 60's, would have gotten the fight he wanted with Ali instead of being humbled in a park and coming to the same realization you need to come to.

 

Again this obsession with weight. A fighter like Ali does not need bulk. Bulk is his enemy. Ali at 240 would have been crap and all his natural advantages would have been taken away. Klitschko was bounced around the ring by the 220 lbs. slightly flabby Sanders, who was a smidgen taller and a little heavier than Ali.
He was also 38 years old and fighting in Wlad's back yard. This obsession with bulk has gotten people blinded. We will come back to Sanders in a bit.

I can't fathom why you say Ali had poor reflexes. The man made a living puling
back from punches and doing things the unconventional way primarily because of his reflexes. He had great reflexes.

Wlad does have decent timing but I don't think his accuracy is anything special. As we will discuss later, his connect percentage against Haye was pretty low. He also does not know how to punch around a guard (not that Ali used the high guard much, but I'm just saying) and besides which, it's one thing being accurate against a Wach or a Austin or a Chagaev because they had no idea about upper body movement or good lateral movement.
Ali never steamed straight ahead at an opponent.

More obsession with weight.
Haye and Ali fought nothing alike. Haye tried to lay traps and counterpunch Wlad and he used good upper body movement to evade punches. But, his feet were relatively static. His upper body movement was good, but his lateral movement was non-existent.
Haye needed to set his feet to throw those powerpunches he was hoping to catch Wlad with.
He was for all intents and purposes still stationary, albeit slippery. He was fighting in the pocket and trying to counter.
Wlad was able to utilise his superior jab and reach because he knew exactly what Haye was trying to do. He could move forward or backward in straight lines and maintain distance as necessary. It essentially became a high level fencing match. One that Haye would lose because for one thing, his jab was virtually absent throughout and another, he threw wide, looping punches for the most part.

Now, back to Sanders. Has it occured to you that the guy that fights most like Ali is Sanders? (I'm talking about the guys Wlad faced.)
Sanders made sure he was not a stationary target, he used good lateral movement, threw straight punches just like Ali and had good handspeed and footspeed, just like Ali. Of course, Ali at his best was much better than Sanders at these things, but the similarities are all there.

Why could Wlad not establish the jab against Sanders? Movement is part of the answer, the other is that Sanders had quick hands and threw straight punches. Wlad's usual imperious outside game had a challenge all of a sudden.

I don't know if you have boxed, but from first-hand knowledge, movement is a killer. Good lateral movement. You cannot get set or measure distance anywhere near as easily as against a guy who comes right at you. Movement and speed is a nightmare combination. Give me speed and movement over strength and power any day.

People say that Wlad has improved since the loss to Sanders. But how do we know? There hasn't been another Sanders for him to fight. His opponents by and large have been huge but stationary targets. Nobody has had what Sanders brought to bear against Wlad. Some have been bigger, some have been stronger, but they didn't have the movement or the overall speed.

Ali never won fights because he was bigger or stronger than the other guy. That was not his game.

95% of heavyweights today are trying to get bigger and stronger, effectively fighting fire with fire. They're concentrating on bulk and raw strength. It works great when you're better than a guy trying to do the same thing as you.

But what happens when a Sanders comes along who doesn't play by those rules? He didn't try to outmuscle Wlad or outpunch him. He out-maneuvered him, outsped him and ultimately outclassed him.

Ali would fight Wlad much the same as Sanders did. Except, he would not be 38 years old and fighting in Wlad's back yard.
Ali was also the master of psychological warfare...he'd begin the war on Wlad's mind months before the fight. I would imagine that it could affect Wlad on some level.

Again, forget size, bulk and strength. It's fine when everyone is playing by those rules, but it can be a crippling drawback when those attributes don't count, or count for as much.
Ali didn't play by those rules.

And also don't think that Ali couldn't punch. He wasn't by nature a puncher and his punches didn't have the force of many other heavies, but the man threw sharp, cutting punches with plenty of snap on them. As an overall hitter, he was much more effective than he's often given credit for. He hurt Lyle with one punch more badly than Foreman did with a ton of punches.

He hit Bonavena with a beautiful hook that did more damage than any of Frazier's did in two fights with Oscar. He could punch. And he was a mean SOB and a great finisher.

Wlad is a good fighter and he does what he does very well. Against the largely stationary dreadnoughts of today, who move as much as a heavybag in a strong wind, his tactics and boxing skills work extremely well. The smaller guys who bore in are leaned on and mauled.

But none of these guys are a Sanders, much less an Ali.

 

I had a look on another forum and this clown is just a spam bot who copies and pastes the same ****.
Its all ripped from the HW blog which everybody knows is a complete joke.

 

You have made it clear you don't understand boxing. Size does not win fights. Skill does. You rank on the size of a man and nothing else.

You are a full time clown in no make up.

 

You're arguments are easy to refute, it's been done over and over. You just choose to ignore this so you can keep your agenda going.