Marciano v Bowe

Don't make me have to defend you.

 

-I already said Marciano could get the job done at his regular weight range. Another poster asked me if he thinks Marciano could come in at 205 lbs, and I gave my opinion.

-I've already theorized the possible benefit of coming in heavier against a more physical opponent and cited examples of Marciano possibly doing this intentionally.

-I frrankly don't know where this "improved speed" nonsense is coming from.

-And you are entitled to that opinion.

 

In defense of McVey, I think another question to be asked is where is the fighter analogous to Marciano in the era of superheavies? Where is the come forward, short-limbed, slower, power punching 185 pounder who ruled the division for 3+ years? Where is this fighter in the past 50 years?

Was Marciano an once a century anomaly or was he a product of his era? I am curious where people fall on this question because it seems to frame the responses offered.

 

-I never asked you ****.

-I gave my opinion on the possible benefit of a heavier weight. No need to restate it.

-I never advocated adding Hollywood pounds.

-And that is your opinion, I thought he looked great at 184, 187, and 189 as well.

 

I believe you commented on a public forum "Prove It" which I took to be an declarative aimed at the whole of the forum.

These are typically the type of pounds a fighter adds when he is not naturally growing out of a weight division. It can work against lesser opponents. See Paz v Dele or Spinks v Cooney. Against top flight opponents, not so good. See Spinks v Tyson. See Paz v Jones, Jr.

He looked like **** at 189 against ****ell. Otherwise, he looked great in every other fight of which there remains footage.

 

-I certainly considered that possibility but in similar short notice match ups with bottom feeders he came in at his usual weight. He only came in over 190 against 220+ lb Shkor and Wilson. And 192.5 against the listed 6'3" 200 Simmons.

-The idea behind coming in heavier is not to be more easily pushed around by a larger opponent.

-Pure speculation but if the Valdez fighter ever went down, I suspect Rocky would have came in at 190-192. I know Moore came in at an unusual for him at the time 197 or something in the second Valdez fight, no doubt weary of the mauling tactics that did Charles in.

 

-And there is no proof, just the same **** I predicted that would come from such a debate.

-He was 189 or 188.5 for Moore. The lay off from nose surgery was likely a bigger factor than the 1/2 pound or so.

 

-Shkor supposedly did. Maybe a tougher fighter than his record indicates, a real journeyman to be sure but he mixed it up with everybody and did manage upset wins over Rusty Payne and Mauriello.

-Rocky also had a rough outings against Lowry and Red at this time despite being at his more normal weight range. Not the best stretch for him, "Rock of Times" claims he was not at his most focused mentally. A necessary learning curve perhaps, as he emerged better than ever against Layne.

 

There was nothing average about Marcianos skill or his speed. Both his skill and his speed were world class because they triumphed at world level. Both speed and skill were underrated and understated. Nothing complicated I accept, but subtle and extremely effective at the highest level all the same.

His movement often looked clumsy but it was too coincidental that he so often profited from his own clumsiness. Each awkward movement would evoke reaction from the opposition that would suply openings Rocky would skilfully and speedily exploit. The skill and speed was as crucial to his sucsess as anything else.

 

Excellent post.

 

There were none in Marciano's era, there were none in Louis's era none in Dempsey s only man, a freak his name was Rocky...there was a small one in Ali's era Frazier and oh yea a guy named Mike Tyson in the 90's they say he was 5-9 5-10 he weighed in at 215 + in the pro's after fighting amateur in the under 200lb class but Mike only had a 70 inch reach and he beat all the Big guy in his prime....I know what you will say about the extra weight and so on....but guys like Marciano,Tyson, Frazier are rare and not the same....I see you call Rocky slow but watch him when he is flurrying and doubling up on punches (watch the Moore and Walcott Charles fights, not slow at all

 

So, Bummy, Frazier and Tyson were slow? Reread my post and absorb it all. In fact, luxuriate in it.