Pernell Whitaker vs Julio Caesar Chavez 1988

He wasn't too green. He was plenty capable of beating Chavez at that point.

 

This. People make so many excuses for Chavez in this fight. They ignore the fact that Pea too was a very small welter, and Chavez only came in at 142 anyway. He "packed on" a grand total of 2 pounds. He was also not "shot" as I read so many times after the fact. Going into that fight, he was considered invincible.

 

I wouldn't say he was shot either but at the same time I'd say he was past his best.
I think he's got a good shot at punching out a decision at lightweight in 88.

 

Hi Al - I guess I have to disagree to at least some extent as to his decline...........I can't say for sure, but when the guy goes into a fight with the reputation he had and as feared as he was and perform as well as he had just prior to that.......and then come out the other end after the fight with Whitaker a little less a fighter, that tells me that he had something taken from him that was more mental than physical.

He knew deep down that Whitaker beat him comprehensively. He wasn't just outboxed, he was outfought. no one anywhere expected that, least of all Chavez, and I really think that took some edge away from him. There seemed to have been too clear a line drawn in his performances before and after Whitaker.

 

Yes, I respect your opinion Sal. I think we just talking about when he started slipping. The Whittaker fight probably did probably take something away from him.
I just felt at the time though that he was really at his peak at lightweight. When he moved up to lightwelter although he was still a great fighter he wasn't as good. When he was moving up to fight for the welterweight title I didn't really fancy his chances for the first time. He weighed 142 for that and then he moved back to lightwelter comfortably.
I felt at the time that he would of beat him at lightweight so that's how I probably come to my conclusion that he wasn't the same fighter at the time of the Pernell fight.

 

Fair enough! :good

 

The lightweight version of Chavez is one of the best LWs ever, but so is the Whitaker we're talking about. Chavez may have slipped a rung when they fought, but you could argue the same for Whitaker.

Both were better at LW and Whitaker beats him the same there.

 

What a great Thread..Great matchup would have been one for the books for sure..Prime for Prime i gotta give Julio the edge here...But I also believe it goes the distance.

 

I mostly agree with this. Whitaker didn't just outbox him , he outfought him as you say, he was even a little dirty here and there (not so much that it altered the fight's outcome, but just enough to rattle Julio a bit) and also it must be mentioned that it was a hugely pro-Chavez crowd as well.

I'm a big Chavez fan and I will be the first to admit that Whitaker was simply better. I don't think Chavez was anywhere near shot; not even close. He looked awesome in beating the capable Terrence Alli to a pulp just months before.

I do think he that he was slightly on the decline by then though (but still very formidable) but it took a genius like Whitaker to show us. For the record, I think Pernell was probably past his peak as well.

In 1988 Whitaker was maybe 2-3 years from his absolute best, while it can be argued that Chavez was at his peak, or extremely close. I'm not sure it makes any difference to be honest.

Whitaker had an incredibly difficult style to solve, and while the temptation is there to assume that Chavez is too strong for him at 135, that was not the case when they did fight, so why should it be any different at a lower weight?
For me, Pernell was a much physically tougher hombre than he's usually given credit for, and he was always slick and quick.

I think the fight would be closer, but for me it's quite possible that Whitaker would win again.

 

Must have been all that greco-roman wrestling he did in training.

 

Whitaker any time. It would be close but I think Pea would've always had his number.

 

Sorry to revive after so long, but couldn't help but put forward my take on this. Two of my favourite fighters.

Meaning no disrespect to Julio, but I think in retrospect not fighting Whitaker at 135 lb in 1988 turned out to be a great thing for his career. Had they fought at that time I'm confident that Pea would have done exactly the same to him as he did in 1993 - maybe even more emphatically.

Interesting that the OP alludes to Chavez being more at home at Lightweight. Well, doesn't the same go for Whitaker, too? Pea never developed in to anything even close to resembling a natural Welter, and at 147, while still a superb fighter, he was evidently operating with diminished reflexes and balance, and hitting with less authority (he was, contrary to popular opinion, at least a fighter with enough pop to keep opponents honest at 135).

The job Pea did on Ramirez in March '88 (if we ignore the blatant larceny of the 'decision') was more impressive than the one Chavez did later that year on Ramirez, for me, and not long afterwards (February '89) came what I'd consider to be Whitaker's best all-round career performance, against Haugen. I don't think Whitaker would have been too green for Julio at the time, personally.

I guess much comes down to how much you think Chavez lost by moving up to 142 to fight Whitaker - for me, it wasn't all that much. He was still pretty special at Light-Welter, for instance, just as he was at Lightweight before that. Seems fanciful to suggest that an additional 2 lb would have hindered him all that much. Seems fashionable now to use the fact that he was challenging for the Welter title as an excuse for Chavez getting his rear end handed to him by Whitaker, but personally I think there were always tiny, little flaws in Chavez's make up, which guys such as Laporte (unlucky to come away with less than a draw, although Chavez did look very tight at 130), Mayweather and Taylor had managed to show a little bit, albeit not enough to really 'expose' him.

Whitaker was just as quick, good on the inside, slippery and tough as all of them (Roger's dodgy chin aside!) and combined all of the above, as well as adding a high ring IQ (something Meldrick in particular lacked). So to me, it's no real surprise that a boxer like Whitaker gave Chavez a torrid time of it and was able to improve on those little inroads that the aforementioned fighters made from time to time. The weight had nothing to do with it in my opinion, and Pea himself had been fighting as a Lightweight less than two years before, too.

Chavez a great fighter, but I'm struggling to see where exactly he'd be able to improve upon his fight against Whitaker in 1993 had it taken place a few years earlier. At 135, Whitaker was just untouchable - I'll go one further and say that, taking away all excuses and reasons for Chavez's showing in their San Antonio fight, Whitaker was quite simply just a better boxer than Julio, and that's the long and short of it.

Whitaker by decision, something like 117-111 or 116-112 at the closest, which is how I generally score their 1993 fight.

 

Good stuff, Chris

 

Whitaker, 10 rounds to 2. Chavez can't hit him often enough to grind him down, which was Julio's MO.