Muhammad Ali at his best vs. Wladimir Klitschko at his best, who wins?

You see, this is what you do. You try and discredit boxers and you havent even watched them before. Liston was not slow or uncoordinated and not Williams and Terell were solid contenders who were better skilled than most of rodays contenders.

 

I run you out of every thread. How is that not going toe to toe? Don't blame me that you have to start hurling insults and racial innuendo's that cause you to get banned because you can't hang with the big boys. :|

 

He's smitten with me and follows me around. what am I supposed to do?

 

You and your buddies?

You're being run out again I see! :rofl

Oh, and people who have to talk about it are usually the ones living in mommy and daddy's basement.

 

Do you turkey's even think Klit stands a chance against prime Lewis, let alone tyson, ali, Frazier etc? LOL Klit is the clumsiest absolutely worst reining champ in heavyweight history. I can watch one round and feel like I'm watching some bum at a bar throw stupid punches. He has power, yes, whopdeedo****. Klit SUCKS and really is an embarrassment to boxing. He's a champ in a chump era, that is it.

 

Thought you were picking up a hooker in Denmark, what's NY have to do with anything?

 

Than why are you picking up a hooker? :think

 

No, the difference being Ali was at the end of his tether against Spinks. He was close to shot. Wlad was a young strong man in his physical prime. BIG difference. He was also not that green either...he had well over 20 fights by that point. Purrity was a stepping stone that had lost several times already.

So this is how it goes, huh? Whenever I mention any of Ali's opponents, you're simply going to come back with derogatory comments like 'they were weak' or 'they were chinny' or whatever.
It's incredible how everyone has been fooled all these years.

But at least he did avenge them. Wlad had to get his brother to avenge his. That's a fact too.

Oh right, I forgot. As long as they are big and heavy, then they're superior to Ali's small and weak opponents. Here we go with the size obsession again.

Wlad got stopped three times. Spin it however you want, he got stopped three times by cherry-picked opposition. That is a fact. Who gives a rat's if he was never outboxed? He got the crap kicked out of him three times. (Four if you include Peter, eve though Wlad won.)

More of this 'featherfist' nonsense. Lyle, Bonavena, Frazier, Quarry and others would beg to differ. But they are small, weak and chinny, so it doesn't count, right?
And where do you get only a 33% knockout ratio for Ali? Fact my bum.

He came off the floor against Peter, but by God he was close to getting his arse handed to him several times. He looked half dead. If Peter had any iota of how to actually box, he would have knocked Wlad out. I even commented to a friend of mine that I felt sorry for Peter, because how could a guy have something like 30 fights but not know how to even throw a proper jab.
Peter is the poster child for this generation; big and strong, but with the boxing ability of a caveman.

Who since the first Peter fight has been a real legitimate threat? Byrd? Chagaev? Thompson? Wach? Mormeck? I think you could only say Haye posed any real threat, and frankly both were so afraid of each other it was a non-fight.
So again, how do we know how Wlad would act under pressure? The guy has never responded well to getting hit back, hence his quick capitulation every time when someone dared to.

Here we go again with trashing not only Ali, but his entire list of opponents. Except of course Foreman because he's BIG and STRONG.

Let's be honest, who the hell has Wlad actually ever beaten? Haye and Byrd count among the very best opponents on his record. Jesus man, and you have the nerve to bash Ali's opponents?
He's fighting a friggin' forklift driver in his next fight.
No doubt you will somehow convince yourself that Leapai is a super-heavyweight freak of nature though.

This has gotten completely pointless. You have either brainwashed yourself or are deliberately being obtuse by defining Ali's entire career as a sham, all the while pumping up Wlad and his opponents into these Godzilla's that you need as nuclear bomb to beat. Or maybe two nuclear bombs. But only if he's sick or green. Otherwise nothing can beat him.

Except a 38 year old washed-up golfer.

 

But the modern era has NOT improved, that's just the thing. This whole super-heavyweight thing is a myth.

Since the beginning of the Bowe era, there have only been four really big heavyweights with the skill to match. Four. Bowe, Lewis and the Klitschko's. That's over a span of 20 years.
So where is this super-heavyweight era?

We had Price who was busted before he got going, Fury who is no better than someone like Jess Willard (and I'm being kind) Wilder who is a complete unknown at this point but appears to be chinny, Wach who is a statue, Thompson who is average at best...so where are all these super huge men with these world-class skills?

Gerry Cooney, John Tate, Leroy Jones, Mike White to name a few more recent big men...there have always been big men, but big men who have world-class skills are still extremely rare. And in fairness to Cooney, he could actually fight. If Tate had been better managed, he could have gone further. Both would be hot as **** in today's era.

The heavies of today have gotten heavier, but have lost their natural athleticism in the process. They are flat-footed and chug along at the speed of an old steamboat. They cannot bounce on their toes, they cannot move, they have no elusiveness, they have no stamina. The skills, apart from the Klits, have regressed terribly.

I used to think guys like Tubbs and Page were fatties, and in their era they were, but they had genuine amateur pedigree and could fight at a decent pace for 15 rounds, and they had genuine skills.

Take the Klits out of the equation, and the current era has seen a remarkable regression in every facet of the game, aside from bulk.

 

Excellent post! :good

 

I have seen wlad do it all. From not being hit in a round (several fights), to using only one arm the whole fight (Austin fight), winning every round an every second of every round in a fight. He can win by countering, can win by staying just on the outside of the other mans reach using great foot work an range, an just pick a person apart. He wins his sloppy fights, just like his last. I could even argue that he fights down to a lot of men that he faces...

Ali in the 60's had pure skill,,,,,I think in the 70's he was less first but he was a lot tougher. I think wlad vs either one wins, but no way does the 200 pound 60's version beat wlad, an keep in mind he's a lite 200 pounds not all filled into it. 70's as I stated before, is what I could see ali pulling an read this word, a "UPSET', cause no way would any sportsbook have wlad as the underdog.... An that to me would not be by outboxing but, really get a punch in that he could follow up with his speed, something maybe later in the fight. An I still say ali would be about a 4-1 underdog

Really I think ali would do good in this era, but I don't think he could take any fight like he did in the 60's, I think the amateur pedigree is much better today, The fundamentals are taught much better now at the heavyweights. I think he would need to be brought up slowly, an really watch out for bangers, look at peters, wasted talent when you think about it. Man had **** load of power, an when they put him against wlad, they were expecting a knockout. Bad move, but if they gave him two more years, getting him behind the jab, I don't think he beats wlad, but wlad could not of blinked that whole fight an no doubt he is still a person in title talks today. Ali if they would of thought ali thin frame was going to absorb wlads punches to the HEAD for 12 rounds, they are smoking some good negro crack, cause ali would be ****ed up like brewster. People forget that Brewster, really started going down hill after taking those massive shots from wlad in there first fight, he slowed down a great deal. An you can bet his death comes early.

Ali to me would have to think the chris byrd route, movie for 12 rounds, an maybe wlad tires late, that what byrd plans were..

 

Ali would take him into deep water and drown him. No way Klitschko goes 15 with Ali Bumaye.

 

Right, Ali challenged Brown to hit him, Brown took mighty swiped & could not touch him, realized he would be humiliated in a fight for all his power.

There is some insabely biased arguemnts here from some decrying bias!

1) Ali was battered by Foreman who was in hi prime, great at cutting off the ring, & Ali was well past his prime, & still lost. Prime Ali would not need all the rope a dope, he would stick & move much more.

2) To cal Frazier & Ali bown up CWs is laughable. "blown up" means not natural. Unlike so many modern fighters, they did not reach HW-or BIG HWs-through a lot of lifting, let alone drugs. They were naturally HWs when matured. You would see their upper bodies somewhat bigger if they were really "blown up" in any sense.

3) Ali folding against Holmes is another joke. First, his corner called it to an end, since he would not go down & was absobing such punishment. 2nd, he was just a ghost of a SHELL of himself, & suffering for a while from Parkinson's. He never passed a physical after Manilla. and the Holmes & Berbick fights should never have been sanctioned.

 

Nice to see signs of an intelligent poster! :thumbsup

 

So far he gets all A's in my book.