Muhammad Ali at his best vs. Wladimir Klitschko at his best, who wins?

It was funny in the Povetkin fight when Povetkin finally managed to break free from one of Wlads illegal wrestling moves and Wlad, in a total panic and not knowing what to do, turned his back and ran across the ring

With a neutral ref, not one of Wlads paid off refs, Ali would make him look stupid.

 

I would remind you that when Ali was an underdog - against Liston and Foreman - he won convincingly.
I think projecting Wlad as a favourite, much less a pohibive one, is a stretch to say the least.

In any event, I have had my say and you yours. Like most internet debates this has gotten us nowhere.

 

This is because you religiously believe that Ali was the best regardless of all his shortcomings. You are like one of those people who rank Tyson above Holyfield H2H even though he lost both fights.

 

And Klitschko fans do the same. Hypocrite much?

 

Yes, twice. Tribeca area

 

LOL, to believe that either of the Klit brothers had a chance against a prime Ali is the same as deceiving yourself to believe that a one dimensional brawler like GGG has a chance to beat a prodigy like Mayweather.
Those who would beleive this crap are motivated by racism and not boxing knowledge.
Ali would have stopped both Klits by massive facial damage, even worst then Lewis did.
To be fair, Lewis would not have beaten Ali either.

 

No doubt Ali is the greater fighter but I think this one could turn out like his fights against Norton - difficult for him stylewise.

 

he beat Norton 2 out of 3, with the loss coming on a broken jaw.

so surely you mean wlad can win only if ali is injured.

 

Possibly, and i could envision that too, but that wasnt prime Ali in my opinion. The Ali that fought Terrell is a much tougher fight than the ones who fought Norton.

 

Going by that version of Ali he has a point. Wlads jab would be a major factor just as Norton's was. That isnt the Ali i choose for this match up though.

 

No reason to believe someone has to be racist to prefer modern boxers who happen to be white. Though bias can exist just due to overrating modernity, size, modern training methods...Some of which help, but to continually think those a few years back could not compete & see things SO black & white: there is an emotional bias there. Just as those who see the Klitchkos as "just a bum" during any previous era. Also no reason to think Holyfield defeating a much more past prime Tyson means he would always take him.

No Elroy, I do not think Frazier & Ali would be called a former CW OR blown up. One, they did not ever get a great deal of muscle/hypertrophy like modern boxers. Also they just did not FIGHT at CW except really early, like Ali as a teenager LHW winning Gold in Rome. Even if barely (what is today) CW very early in a pro career, if you overwhelmingly fight at HW without getting bulky from intense lifting-& your frame easily supports your weight-you are a natural HW.

You need not have the bulk of so many modern HWs-some drug enhanced-to be a natural HW!

Ali was maybe faster than all today in the '60's, certainly if you consider some of his punches & his superb reflexes. He was 212 in his prime, not "so much lighter" than all thos etoday at all, & not light historically. ALSO check the stats for FOTC: he looked more muscular & not quite as lean, but was only 215! And most other fights he was around 221...No it was not WEIGHT that slowed his dazzling foot speed down. Not being so young must have been part of it, but mainly the layoff when he was unfairly barred from boxing!

I AGREE with you that being a little overweight at HW you COULD be very fit. And some were chubby back in the day, though not many elite boxers. You just kept referring to 6 pack guys from today, & there needed to be some balance.

You are taking aan extreme & untenable position though to never accept first hand testimonials. First of all, like your misuse of the word "fact" when it is clearly opinion, Hearsay explicitly involves 2nd hand information. 2nd, some things are not shown on film OR you cannot tell from film. Always consider bias, agendas, limiting factors of getting it right: but if many folks-often soon after an event where no deterioration is relevant-say the same thing, like Shavers hit them the hardest, whether they won or lost: it is overwhelmngly likely to be true.

You made no argument re: why The Big Cat does not hit so hard for today. He could beat many today in his prime, though again, that does NOT well establish pure power! I keep saying, punch combos, work rate, speed, endurance, myriad skills, endurance-mean much more than merely one factor, power.

Lastly, you just give no reason to believe that 1) folks looking at all the facts would pick Klitchko. 2) It is a biased assumption that Ali is overwhelmingly chosen on sentiment, & the analysis you describe is NOT done by both sides.

See, this is a problem in politics too. Always describing the "other" as having bad or enfeebled motivations & intelligence. Can't you see that amongst all the bias that DOES occur, folks can come to conclusions on all sides of an argument with various motivations? Meaning many are intellectually honest & non-deluded but can see a case on EITHER side!

 

Actually you are....Merchants Ghost, Tommo & Glover.
Just spent 30 mins reading your posts in this discussion and to put it quite simply, you need help.

Tell you what, you can stay until xmas, then you are gone...again.

 

As i mentioned in Classic, i am not a mod, nor do i profess to be,so i cannot simple press a button.

What i will say is if any moderators on here simply carry out an ip check they will see that your address has been banned at least 3 times thus far.

Surely after spending all that time, losing at least 3 accounts and god knows how many posts you would step back and just maybe give it rest with the constant bashing of previous eras.

Judging by the responses to your postings you seem hellbent on alienating yourself from the vast majority of users here.

 

Well that's just it, i did read your posts and guess what ?.....you are spouting the same old nonsense you already got banned 3 times for.
You are so close minded you do not appear to have the intelligence to realise you are fighting a battle you have zero chance of winning.

As for me being a moderator, please feel free to contact the site owner and they will verify i am not. If i were you would be gone already trust me.

 

The thing with Shavers is that so many opponents have complimented his power. They can't surely ALL by talking out of their butts.

I'm sure you've read what Tillis had to say about his power, and Tillis fought Tyson. Holmes likened getting hit by Earnie as liike being slapped by a truck doing 60 mph, whereas with Tyson it was like being hit by a sports car doing 100 mph.

I agree that if you look at Shavers, you wonder where all this supposed power comes from. But there must be something to it. Ali, Cobb, Holmes and Tillis all raved about his hitting power so I can't buy into them all being dishonest.