Joe Louis Vs. Wladimir Klitschko

No, but it is a moot point as what you're saying applies to both Louis and Klitschko.

What you seem to consistently argue though is that modern nutrition and conditioning training isn't applied to boxers, which seems highly illogical.

 

point out where I've mentioned both modern nutrition and conditioning training.

 

I've consistently said they used the bows in training, making no mention of any war.

Whether they were at Agincourt or not is mutally exclusive from their strength to nock these huge bows, so I wouldn't need to mention they were at Agincourt or not. But you've mentioned it like its a logical argument about strength.

the only time I referred to warfare is WHEN you mentioned soldiers at war, in reply to you about evolution and the environment. There is no need for a reference to war in my argument about physical strength.

 

You are aware that is the crux of my argument regarding modern athletes being bigger, faster and stronger than athletes of the past?

 

yep, your argument. you can keep it, yet it has its strengths.

 

We are at an impasse. You seem to think that bowmen were merely average Medieval denizens that, by virtue of living at the time, were proficient in using bows and stronger than modern man at the same activity. I think that bowmen were specialized practically professional soldiers who trained consistently to increase their overall combat effectiveness, and therefore have a modern analog in current professional soldiers.

 

You mean Schmeling? The thing there though is that it took 75 right hands during the course of the fight to keep him down. Now Schmeling is small by today's stanards, but 75 right hands from a cruiserweight is still an awful lot of punishment to withstand.

While it could be argued that Louis was susceptible to the odd knockdown here and there, the fact that only two men ever kept him down - one in his very last fight - suggests that his chin is not fragile and even against a big man like Wlad there is no guarantee at all that he folds early, like some are suggesting.
Wlad has very few early round KO's against championship level opposition, and in many of his biggest fights, he went the distance. Chambers, who is about Louis' size, lasted to the 12th and almost made the final bell, so the chances of Wlad just blowing Louis out the ring after a few rounds is very remote.

 

I'll tell you one thing, I am certainly getting tired of you wrongly reading things. Its difficult to argue with someone who, if you tell them the world is round, replies with 'so you are arguing that its an octagon'. reading an argument about strength like its about soldiering training. You are going to keep doing that despite being asked why you changed the subject.

impasse if you call it that, bye.

 

Oh, I don't necessarily think Wladimir or Lennox would have blown out Louis. I just think that against guys of that size, with that skill set, mobility, and overall ability, it is asking an awful lot him to cross all that real estate and win.

 

No one changed the subject, you just don't seem to understand what the term specialist means.

Did you or did you not state that "Medieval 14 year olds could do what contemporary men cannot" regarding longbows? The assertion there obviously being that the usage of the longbow was common practice back then and any one could pick one up and use them effectively.

 

oh yeah like I meant all 14 year olds could do it.

obviously the ones who trained with their use did it, not Arthur the trainee monk from Bardsey. not sure why you would read what I wrote as that.

 

Primo might not have been much of a boxer, but he was immensely strong. 6'5" and around 266 lbs. in fighting shape, with not an ounce of extra fat on him. He scared people half to death with that physique back in the day, before he got clobbered by Baer and Louis.

There are plenty of pictures on the net showing his broad, thick back and huge shoulders and arms. Not that it matters really, but I would be reasonably confident of him being at least as strong or stronger than Wlad.

 

Wlad's got the best straight right I've ever seen in a heavyweight. I don't like Joe's chances given his vulnerability to that punch.

 

I am fairly certain that there are plenty of 14 year olds today that can handle a longbow. I believe the draw necessary for a longbow was somewhere in the area of 100-160 pounds of force, which really is not that great.

 

Well, that's fair. That is why I chose Wlad, because although Louis had extremely good footwork, it wasn't designed to chase down mobile foes. That's why he could chop up big guys like Carnera, the Baer's and Simon easily enough, but struggled with small, fast guys like Farr and Conn.
But add Wlad's superior height and reach, and it becomes harder still. I would give him a live chance to pull something off if Wlad got careless though.