Muhammad Ali at his best vs. Wladimir Klitschko at his best, who wins?

:deal

Nutbaggery is a cancer to this sport that undermines the accomplishments of our contemporary participants of our beloved sport, and should be dealt with accordingly. Without pity, or remorse. No mercy. Straight, hard nosed facts to all those that dare debate us with any sort of historical, racial, or nationalistic biases. :iak

 

:rofl

 

Post a source for this. I have never heard of this before.

...Which immediately should raise a red flag concerning your 'heavier is better' premise.
After all, how is it that a skinny little cruiserweight could do what Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, Frazier, Norton etc. could not?

Wrong. A prime example of Ali doing exactly what you claim he cannot is in the Terrell fight. (to serve as one example.) I'll even make it easy for you - skip to 36:30 of the youtube vid and watch the next sequence of punches. Now show me where Wlad has done that.

Ali was more aggressive than Wlad, mostly. The fact that he has a lower KO ratio to Klitschko does nothing to refute this. He fought Frazier in the trenches, fighting in close sometimes, ripping uppercuts and hooks to Joe's head.
Even against the aggressive Foreman he was landing a lot of punches right down the pipe in every round.
He is a far better finisher than Wlad too, whose finishing skills are second rate.

Countering skills? Where? Wlad retreats like a scalded cat at the merest sniff of aggression from his opponent. That, or he desperately grabs and holds on.

So we're back to Ali being renowned for getting hit, huh? Are you aware that Ali was regarded as virtually unhittable at his best? He got caught a lot as an older fighter yes, but at his best he was never regarded as hittable, not even close. That is a bald-faced lie.
Besides, would you rather have a great chin or a poor one, like Wlad?

And who are these great punchers of this era? Let's evaluate Wlad's performance against the punchers he faced:

Mercer - Old as dirt at 41. Not much of a win.
Rahman - Another old fighter (36) long past his best.
Sanders - flattened Wlad in two rounds. Sanders was 38.
Brewster - Flattened Wlad in 5 rounds. Was cherry-picked later on after not having fought in over a year and having lost his last fight. Also half blind.
Peter - Knocked Wlad down 3 or 4 times (forget how many) en route to a points loss. Fought Wlad again, but only after Vitali had softened Peter up for him.
Haye - Uninspiring and lackluster points decision win for Wlad.

Not a particularly inspiring effort, wouldn't you agree?

All of this is pretty much conjecture and totally subjective.

 

Because in all but one fight where his mettle was truly tested, he lost. It's as simple as that. I'll give him credit for saving his career and coming back, but in the fights where he was tested and hit back, he came up short 75% of the time.

Wlad only has a 1 inch reach advantage, and the rest is pure speculation and conjecture, save for power.

Yeah, but Ali got up each and every time. He was never knocked out in his entire career. Can that fortress of bone and muscle (and glass, you forgot the glass) say that? No. And who has Wlad knocked out with one punch at championship level, besides the pudgy Chambers?
Are you aware also that Lamon Brewster nominated Lionel Butler as the hardest puncher he faced, and by some distance, and not Wlad?
While I would not say Wlad's power is overrated, is he really the crushing one-punch hitter you're painting him out to be?

Power schmower. Power never troubled Ali. Nearly every single power puncher that faced Ali got stopped.
You guys are so hung up on bulk and power.

Why would Ali need to neutralise Wlad with one punch? Ali dented many chins superior to Wlad's, so stopping Wlad (a fighter who as a rule gets stopped if he loses) will probably be exactly the way Ali would win, should he win.

Once again, Ali will not be looking for Wlad; he will be making Wlad come to him. Ali will not stand flat-footed right in front of Wlad like Haye or Byrd. Wlad excels if you're a stationary target, but Ali would be moving side to side and backwards, giving Wlad angles, something Wlad is entirely not used to at all.
HE would decide when to punch and when to move away. Do you have any idea how hard it is to fight a guy who moves so well, and is faster? Of course you don't.

And what is Ali going to be doing this whole time, just twidling his thumbs? I tell you something though, that 240+ lbs. is going to feel awfully heavy after several rounds of chasing after Ali.

 

******ed.

Ali didn't have the reflexes and the slipping skills of Haye?

Is there any point replying to the rest? atsch

 

WHO GIVES A F**K?

It is IRRELEVANT to the thread title!

Why do keep mentioning this??

It's just circumstances.

If I start a thread asking - Who was better, Ray Leonard or Floyd Mayweather?

Would you join the debate and say - When Ray was 35, he got knocked out by Terry Norris. But Floyd at 35 and 36, beat Cotto and Alvarez.

Would that be your input?

Roy Jones was knocked cold by Johnson at 35-36. While at the same age, Joe Calzaghe beat Mikkel Kessler.

What does that mean?

Let's spin things around.

When Wlad was 22, he got knocked out by Ross Puritty. When Ali was 22, he shocked the world by beating Sonny Liston.

 

Haye and Ali don't move the same.

Because Ali moved BETTER overall.

Ali had great reflexes and superior footwork to Haye.

Only a complete moron would argue that Haye was better than a prime Ali.

So again, if Haye could avoid getting hurt and knocked out, then why couldn't a better, faster fighter??

With regards to when Ali was roped as you call it, when was that?

We're discussing a PRIME Ali. Not the 1974 version who voluntarily backed himself into the ropes to let George Foreman punch himself out.

 

The fact that Wlad either doesn't possess a certain arsenal of shots, or that he doesn't need to employ them, just shows you the sorry state of the HW division.

Prime Wlad never lost a fight? So Wlad wasn't prime in his 20's?

In your world, guys like Frazier etc were bums, but guys like Sanders were HW monsters.

 

Wlad never lost a fight in prime, not this garbage again

Puritty fair enough, although losing to a journeyman like him is still embarrassing (Ali never lost to anyone like that, in fact when he was younger and less experienced than Wlad was in that fight, Ali beat Sonny Liston) But against Sanders Wlad was 27 years old, had been pro for 7 years and was 40-1, against Brewster he was a year older, and had Steward in his corner at that point too. He was in his prime.

It's also worth noting that Wlad lost to Brewster when he was fighting outside of Germany and got in the ring with a ref who actually enforced the rules and warned Wlad about his disgusting cheating. Brewster got in inside, Wlad's poor skill levels meant that when not allowed to cheat he had no clue what to do and he ended up crawling around the canvass and his hands and knees.

 

And what a world that must be.

 

Elroy,

How are they much harder to hit? Haye's always been easy to catch, with his poor imitation of Roy Jones.

When exactly was Ali renowned for taking punches while prime?

Ali had superior footwork to Byrd and Chambers.

You're clueless.

Ha!

Footwork had little to do with it??

Everything comes from the feet.

Footwork enables a boxer to set himself offensively, as well as to defend himself.

It's probably a fighters main attribute.

Laughable.

Wlad would have had minimal advantages in height and reach.

Ali had major advantages in speed and all around skills.

??

 

It certainly is, guys like Puritty, Sanders, Brewster, Peter and Byrd are HW greats but guys like Ali, Frazier, Louis etc are nobodies who would have no chance of beating either brother, they would get KO'd quickly because the Klits are just too big.

There are many strange and confusing things on planet Klittard, like if you quit or get you face ripped apart by your opponent leaving you in no fit state to continue, then this doesn't count as losing. Or another good one - taking steroids is not cheating.

 

atsch

 

Ali voluntarily backed himself onto the ropes against Foreman. atsch

Go and watch some boxing.

 

The fact that you need to even ask this question, shows us your knowledge of the sport.