Muhammad Ali Vs. Joe Louis

Ali too quick, too classy, backpedalling like crazy perhaps but allround too speedy and skilled. I think he wins this any way he wants. He always found a way to win especially against the big punchers. I think he gets into Louis' head.
Is there any way for Joe to win?.... Fast KO against a young Clay a la Cooper or Attritional longer fight against a post-Zaire Ali, but no luck against fullgrown and seasoned Ali.

 

Joe would be eating a lot of right hand leads that would take a hell of a lot out of him as the fight went on.

Ali presents a far bigger puzzle to Louis than vice versa, sure he may not of met a combination puncher quite like Joe, but Louis himself never met anyone close to a prime Ali.

IMO if anyone is failing to see the final bell it would be Joe Louis.

 

He was a strong athlete. He had a strong left jab. A very good follow-up right. But I don´t think he had a lot of natural ability as a boxer. He usually threw a left, a right and then clinched in stead of punching in combinations.
I don´t think he could have handled Frazier that way. And a strong ironchinned guy like Chuvalo would have slowed down Lewis with bodypunhes, finishing the job before time.
Lewis won against the best opposition of his era and deserves to be called a World Champion, no doubt about that.

 

I can make a case for both, but I find it easier making a case for Ali, and my conscience feels clearer making a case for him as a result.
But of course Louis is very much in this fight...he's just too classy not to be. It's not just Ali's speed and movement though; it's his innate toughness that counts for a lot should Louis find a way to close the gap. I don't see him getting Ali out of there like he did to Conn or Walcott, great as those finishing punches were.

That toughness and Ali's ability to fight going backwards, which is a rare quality in a heavyweight, stand Ali in good stead against Louis I think. Ali also had no problems pulling down on an opponent's neck or head to unsettle their balance in close. All in all, a tough fight for Joe.

 

Bummy.

I've read quite a few of your posts, and they seem to strike that wonderful balance between knowledge, and nostalgia. But please do tell me my man, who EVER laid combinations on Ali in his prime?

 

I disagree Bummy. Louis did have an awesome hook but I don`t believe he would be able to get himself in position to fire it often enough. Joe Frazier was faster moving forward, coming in. He was more of a pressure fighter where Louis was more of a stalker. Frazier could come in low under Ali`s jab and force his way inside.

Frazier was also willing to eat some punches on the way in without being stopped. Frazier had a superior chin. Louis didn`t really do that. I think Ali`s movement would keep Joe Louis from getting off.

 

This. Very well said.

 

Cooper caught him with that left hook, he hit him earlier and then repeated it but I would not call Ali prime

Frazier who was a left handed fighter shook Ali badly in the 11th round then dropped him in the 15th....Louis had 2 hands and many variations of hooks & right hands. I think Ali offers a lot in the way of movement and hand speed to this fight but Louis had combination hand speed as well...JL would be a tough mountain to overcome....there was only one Ali but there also was only one Joe Louis and this would be a great fight but I favor JL to do things to Ali that Liston & Foreman & Frazier could not

 

because Louis was usually the stalker because of his confidence in his power and combination ability in both hands we tend to overlook his other talents, jab speed of combo's and adaptability. Sometime Louis's aggression caused him to get hit but he always got up, he was stopped once young and once old but he finished with a 66-3 record

When I watch the Ali-Norton fights, Ali-Jones-Ali-Frazier Ali-Bonavena-Ali-Liston and Ali-Foreman I can see where a superior Joe Louis would be effective because he was faster, better stamina & pressure and was able to land combinations with great speed far better than Liston,Foreman,Bonavena,Norton but Ali would be a tough fight for Louis as well because he would be the best fighter that Joe fought in his prime

In a great battle I am thinking along the lines of Joe Frazier that Louis wins

 

A little harsh. He was beaten by 3 guys - all world champions, and 2 of them after his 36th birthday. I'll take lesser guys like Charles and Marciano over Spinks and Berbick. Yes, close to his prime, Schmeling caught him. He plugged the weakness Schmeling saw, crushed him in a rematch, and didn't lose another fight for more than a decade.