Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights?

Me neither, but there is no arguing against hard data.

 

Naturally the force is equal but with a smaller glove a punch can be aimed more directly onto the target. First time efficiency is better achieved with a smaller impact area. Those machines measure the impact on a wider target. Being able to pick out a moving target on a smaller area like a direct hit on the point of the chin, the temple, the solar plexus or floating rib is easier with a smaller, narrower glove than a wider bigger one . Aiming a punch between the sheild of defending gloves is also more successfully acheived with smaller mitts. As I said before, with smaller gloves there is less room for era, it suits the more athletic, sharper punchers.

I am willing to bet a ball pin hammer would have a more accurate and effective result with less force than a mallet made of the same material with less blows picking out smaller targets. Otherwise people would turn light switches on with their elbow or knee rather than index finger.

It's not just power, think of the extra cuts. Historically, more fighters have been TKOd with cuts and facial injuries caused by precise hitting than from conclusive knockouts.

 

Only tells a fraction of the story.

 

I can buy that. Nice explanation.

 

NO !!!YOU HAVE BE FITTER TO GO 15rds as opposed to 12 which fits nicely INTO 1 HR tv TIME

 

many of the bigger guys could hardly fight a fast paced 12 rounder never mind a 15 rounder. I remember the 80's with guys like Page & Tubbs, boring fights, guys leaning on one another with no action, David Bey, Leroy Jones...too much weight

 

Actually, that's exactly what they did for the first fight. Holyfield went down from his usual 208 to 205 for the first meeting to give him more speed.

He put on 9 lbs. to get to 214 for the second, but remember also that Bowe himself was heavier in the second fight by 11 lbs at 246.

I don't think you can simply look at the weights and conclude a whole lot from it, since Holyfield's game plan also differed from the first fight.

But the Holyfield example does bring up an interesting example of a guy who packed on quality weight, and did not just put on a huge amount of bulk. He could have weighed much more than he did had he wanted to, but he didn't want to sacrifice the things that made him an outstanding heavyweight.

 

One thing is clear, there are more championship fights going the distance since heavyweights got heavier and it cannot be coincidental that it began around the time the gloves got bigger.

If heavyweights are punching harder and faster at 240 where is the proof?

If they made basket balls bigger and kept the hoops the same size what would happen?

I think the accuracy of punches became effected once gloves grew to 10oz. It became harder to stop a man with punches so heavyweights began to grind one another down with weight and mass....giving the advantage to the tallest boxers with longer arms.

Rounds cutting from 15 to 12 was another reason to come in heavier.

 

This was a strange call by the camp and was always likely to end in a bullying session, which is what it was.

Yes, it's not just about 'weight' in itself as we know, but quality. Bowe was an (almost) lean 235 or something in the first fight. He was in ideal condition for a man of his size....which is proven by the amount of work he did and the punches thrown- a tremendous performance.

I think it was apparent that The Deal did need to improve his strength by hook or by crook. Also, it's easy to forget that the Holyfield from 88-92 was regarded as having a suspect chin and clearly not big enough to compete...he proved them wrong but was never really big enough to be dominant champion in the super-heavyweight era. He was always a couple of big fights away from losing his title- although at the same time was always capable of the upset- as he often proved.

As we know there's a world of difference between an in-shape Bowe- or Lewis- and a fat Leroy Jones or David Bey (which reminded me- in the first ever KO Predictor series they called Bey over Holmes ).

 

I pretty much agree with this. You and I are probably much closer to parity on this argument than you think.

 

Holyfield was definitely a guy who was seen as not big enough at the time. I remember reading the pre-fight hype in B.I. where it was stated many times that Holyfield at 208 just was not big enough to beat Douglas. Someone (forget who) called him a pumped up cruiserweight with skinny legs.

I do agree that he needed to become stronger and more robust. Going life and death with Dokes - although a stirring fight - did highlight that if an old cokehead like Dokes could be that competitive, then Holyfield would struggle against the elite fighters.

The thing too though, that although he lost to Bowe, he also did beat him in the return match and although he did lose to Lewis both times, the second fight was a lot closer and more competitive with a Holyfield past his best.
Of course, he was bigger and stronger at that point, but he was always considerably smaller than both but gave them both plenty to think about. (At least, in the return matches.)

Once Lewis started to establish dominance over the division, we had a clear #1 guy. But before that happened nobody was actually dominant, so I'm not sure if it was a lack of size so much on Holy's part or just that there was a lot of decent competition back then.

 

I always felt that during this era that stamina was rationed out for explosive bursts because everyone was carrying artificial body mass. Long, short and the tall heavyweights alike. It became a trend to rest for part of the round. Old timers used to coast, but never actually rest. I remember Holfeild just stopped fighting altogether as Bowe was begging to be knocked out. It was like he needed to wait to recharge his battery or something.

 

No, but the extra three rounds could favor the fighter in better condition. Late round KO's, especially from behind are part of what makes boxing special. Many other sports are over in the last 9 minutes of the game, not so for boxing.

The trouble is the Klitschko's, Lewis and Bowe ( when Bowe was in shape ) often had more stamina that there opponents.

Who had more left in their battles, Lewis and Bowe, or Holyfield?

Every fighter has a best weight for them, which has to do with body fat percentage and cardio fitness. So Wlad at 245 pounds at 6'6" is perfect for him, but Tua at 245 pounds at 5'10" is not.

 

I agree with the weight thing, everyone is different Vlad is a great weight at 6"6 and 245lbs because he is also heavily muscled in the upper body....Leg weight is easy to put on and in the case of Tua he may have been better served to have trimmed down and find the best balance for him, he could have weighed much less and retained his strength and power

Joe Louis would blow up to 230-240 and still looked more fit than a lot of the fighters in the last few decades but around fight time got down to his best weight....Heavyweights (great trainers) back then had a limit even for heavyweights and a correct balance

 

Both guys were below 240 and were still young men who could still maintain youth speed. It represents an explainable exception to the rule. Both guys were carrying artificial body mass. Unnatural muscular development. Tua was 199 or so when he turned pro.