Lewis or Vitali, who is higher ATG?

Vitali was winning because Lewis didn't get going until the 3rd and Vitali having come into the fight more determined and more focused started very strong. Lewis's lackluster start handed the first two rounds to Vitali.

From the 3rd onwards Vitali was losing ground constantly. The official scorecard split rounds 3, 4, 5 and 6 between Lewis and Vitali two a piece. Vitali picked up round 3 on one card, round 4 on all card and round 5 on two cards on workrate and punch output while Lewis picked up round 3 on two cards, round 5 on one card and round 6 on all cards on punch effectiveness. Vitali threw 432 punches in the 6 rounds fought and landed 156 while Lewis threw 222 and landed 102.

So even if the cuts had never happened there is clear evidence that Vitali had lost control of the fight and that the tide was turning in Lewis's favor - going on how Lewis dominated the 6th and wasn't being hurt by Vitali punches anymore by that stage.

Holyfield suffered a very similar injury against Byrd in the 1st or 2nd round of their fight, yet he fought on to the final bell. Vitali failed to see out the last two or three rounds of a fight where he had a big lead on the card.

It wasn't that Vitali wasn't capable of seeing out those last few rounds either, he just didn't want to. It was a difference in mentality at the time. Vitali felt that he could save face by justifying having to pull out injured and avoid making the injury worse, but the boxing public expect more dertermination from their champions and prefer to see them go out on their sword than choose to take the loss. The amount of abuse he recieved for his decision meant that he would never again consider quitting in a fight because of injury.

I would, however, be more forgiving of him if he had rematched Byrd when they were both relevant again in 2004, when they were both world champions.

When Vitali quit against Byrd he forfeited the fight, he cannot claim to have not really have been beaten when he handed the win to Byrd.

And, as stated above, he had lost control of the fight against Lewis and was being pummelled for much of the 6th round. He might not have been beaten clearly but he certainly didn't dominate the majority of the fight and cannot claim to have been obviously superior to Lewis either.

Cant blame the brothers for not wanting to fight each other, but it does hurt them from a legacy standpoint that neither faced the most dangerous potential opponent to them during their years of dominance.

As for him having "only retired so he could run for president", that would be more acceptable if he had retired after beating Charr instead of holding the title hostage for 16 odd months, and if he had not spent around 9 months avoiding his mandatory against Stiverne and missing two deadline to announce his plans for the future and only retiring when the WBC offered him the Emeritus Champion title.

The way he jerked around the heavyweight division and strung everyone along when all he was interested in was the political situation in Ukraine and didn't care about fulfilling his obligations as WBC Champion but paid lip-service to it just so he could keep hold of the title a little longer when he seemed to have no intention of defending it was an absolute disgrace.

 

Reading the poll, it is obvious that there are 39 Guys here WHO dont know jack**** about boxing

 

almost every hw champion in history was retired or about to retire from defending at that age.

jeez, some muthafcukers always trying to iceskate up hill.

 

To those who complain that Wlad/Vitali never unified by fighting each other- How can you unify when the guy holding the other belts refuses to fight you? As you are keen to keep mentioning, the Klitschkos are two people, not one.

 

Its not even close. Lewis is top 10, vits is outside the top 20.

 

it has been proven time and again that Lewis was not planning to retire

 

Only to people who look at the name on the record rather than the reality, again- the best guys Lewis beat were completely shot, with the exception of Vitali who was beating him before a cut stoppage caused by an illegal punch.

 

You'd have to go with Lewis in the ATG league but Vitali was definitely winning that fight, wether it was Lewis being overweight or past it, that's up for discussion. I think they both do get overrated slightly, Holyfield at his peak would have beaten them both IMO

 

Vitali retird last month and nobody could of gave any less of a ****.

He's not known because he fought nobody. As far as most are concerned he's just the victim Lewis battered on his last ever fight.

 

Lewis without a doubt, Lewis fought much better opposition and had the more meaningful Boxing career and was part of a more meaningful era.

 

I don't hate Vitali. I respect him as a fighter. But im not a fanboy of no boxer and realize that he fought nobody and i am watching this sport long enough to know you cant rank him highly when he only fought C levelers and lost to the best guy he faced. At the end of the day Vitali is a nobody.
Phillip Holyday is up there ahead of him. Fact.

 

Lets look at how the fight progressed. Vitali came out strong and dominated the first two rounds. The 3rd, 4th and 5th were competitive and arguments could be made for either man winning the 3rd or 5th - though Lewis has a stonger argument for the 3rd and Vitali for the 5th. The 6th was a clear Lewis round. Vitali had gone from dominating the first round to clearly losing the last round, a total turn around.

Vitali was obviously not in control of the fight when it was stopped. A run down of the 6th round:

Both fighters come to the center of the ring and attempt to jab. Vitali grazes Lewis while Lewis lands two jabs clean and forces Vitali to back up. Vitali throws a few pawing jabs then the two men grab and tie up. The ref breaks them up and once the fight starts Lewis lands a clean jab while Vitali swings wildly and connects with a hook, Lewis throws another jab and connects and Vitali backs off. Vitali throws a few weak punches, Lewis walks through them and throws another jab. Vitali continues to throw more punches but Lewis isn't phased and continues to walk forward, catching Vitali with another jab and a right. Vitali clinches and Lewis tries to push him away, the ref splits them up.

Vitali continues to throw weak punches which Lewis doesn't even attempt to avoid. Vitali goes in for another clinch and Lewis catches him with a viscious upper-cut and Vitali immediately throws his arms around Lewis's head and leans all over him. They break, Vitali swings his arms with no power at all and clinches again. Lewis hits him with a fews shots to the body and one to the head before the ref breaks them apart.

Lewis attempts to jab, Vitali clinches, ref breaks them. Lewis attempts to jab, Vitali hits a light upper-cut or two then clinches again. Vitali throws a few jabs and right which miss and gets caught by a weak left from Lewis. Lewis then dives in and catches him with a stiff left and Vitali clinches.

Vitali goes for a jab at the same time Lewis goes for a right and their arms tangle, Lewis throws a left to the body and attempts to back away only for Vitali to cling onto his head forcing the ref to step in again. Vitali throws a jab and a weak right which graze Lewis's guard and Lewis throws a jab in response which misses and Vitali catches him with a right hook. They clinch.

Lewis throws a left which misses because Vitali dives straight in for a clinch. Lewis throws a jab and a right and their heads clash as Vitali once more moves in for a clinch. Lewis throws a right, Vitali throws a left, clinch with Vitali's arms wrapped around Lewis's head. Vitali throws rights and lefts which land but have no power behind him as Lewis holds onto his head while backing up before responding with a few rights and lefts of his own. They clinch against the ropes.

Vitali throws a few punches which Lewis avoids before landing a couple of shots to the head that clearly hurt Vitali as the Ukrainian then stumbles after Lewis with his arms out-stretched attempting to clinch as Lewis backs up trying to get room. Ref breaks them up, Lewis attempts to jab, Vitali clinches and gets another viscious upper-cut for his trouble before the bell rings.

Perhaps saying Lewis dominated it a bit strong, but Vitali spent the majority of the 6th round clinching, and he hit pretty much no meaningful offense in the round at all. Vitali looked like he had no energy left, he had no power behind his punches, his punch output was low, and when he went back to his corner he slumped down on his stool just as much as Lewis did. How he behaved after the fight does not change the fact that he looked spent throughout that last round fought.

Vitali was not worn out and run down by the 6th because of those cuts. It was because Lewis made it competitive and landed with increasing regularity and effectiveness. Had Vitali not suffered those cuts then he still would have been exhausted by the sixth round because of the high pace he set for himself and the damage caused by Lewis's offense. I dont know who would have won if Vitali hadn't been cut as neither man seemed to have the energy to last the distance.

 

Not remotely as much distance between them as some braindead posters suggest. Lewis deserves to be ranked slightly higher, but that's all. He legitimately beat Vitali, but it is insane and inappropriate not to take into account the fact that VK was beating him and was stopped on cuts, and that Lewis retired rather than fight one of if not the most lucrative fights of his career. Apart from that, Lewis beat bigger names than Vitali, but Vitali beat his opponents much more convincingly than Lewis. It comes up to a close contest. If Vitali had had a couple more successful title defenses, say ko'd both Stiverne and Haye, and also consequently brought his ko percentage up to the highest all time and his title defense streak longer than Lewis's, then Vitali's overall career would have equaled Lewis's even with the loss.

 

I would rate Vitali higher if he'd beaten Stiverne and Haye at age 43. And if you look at VK's career he stopped more opponents and was way more professional, Lewis had some poor outings as champion and contender and his highlight is two dull fights vs Holyfield and stopping a faded Tyson, not forgetting his dirty boxing tko result in 2003.