People seem to forget they where on Roids

Oh stfu already ! If they really worked and gave them an advantage Mosley would have never lost go Winky or got starched by Forrest !Holyfield would have swepted the trilogy with Bowe!

And nothing and I mean nothing will give you the hand speed Jones had ! So again stfu!

 

No, there are not "cold, hard facts" about ANY of this. Only Jones was "caught" - and only one time, so this doesn't prove anything about his other fights. :yep

Mosley never tested positive for anything. He admitted using PEDs before a grand jury, and I think only one time. Beyond this, then, no proof.:-(

And there is no proof whatsoever that Holyfield ever used them - no tests, no testimony, nothing. Just speculation.:deal

People can say what they like, but there is no proof, and fair-minded boxing fans have to accept that people are innocent until PROVEN guilty.

 

I have to agree with OP on this one, I can't on one day say PEDcquiao is the biggest cheat of all and turn a blind eye to others including past greats. A person isn't going to admit he cheated his entire career, he will obviously say he only did it one time, just like Bill Clinton never inhaled. Boxing is one of the easiest sports to cheat in, and with so much money on the line who isn't going to take advantage of it?

 

HEADBANGER & Silver Skull 66 are spot on.

I will add that while the drugs get more refined & numerous in their permutations & "Stacking" them together, they have been effective for decades. EVen a small advantage can make a big difference, & you can get a large illegitimate edge just by putting many times more male hormone in your body than you ever could naturally produce. Greater muscle mass, greater power even at the SAME bulk for some drugs, greater recovery able to train at more intensity...

It is sophistry or confused reasoning to say that you still gotta be skilled & sometimes geared up guys lose. YES, but it is still a large, unfair advantage, stealing doillars & dreams when it lets you beat an honest man.

Now I am very careful indeed to not condemn someone based upon mere rumors, & the degree of cheating, how long & often, also must be considered-though if caught once, likely you did it much more. IF Holyfield just got much bigger yet defined in his upper body without a very large frame, & his neck was huge like Tyson when almost no boxers with bigger frames than him reached 19 1/2" measured (& lean/muscle), I would reserve judgement. But I see no indication that the line on him is at all false. From Wikipedia, though I know many of you know this:

Allegations of steroid and HGH use

On February 28, 2007, Holyfield was anonymously linked to Applied Pharmacy Services, a pharmacy in Alabama that is currently under investigation for supplying athletes with illegal steroids and [url]human growth hormone[/url] (HGH). He denies ever using performance enhancers.[url][36][/url]

Holyfield's name does not appear in the law enforcement documents reviewed. However, a patient by the name of "Evan Fields" caught investigators' attention. "Fields" shares the same birth date as Holyfield—October 19, 1962. The listed address for "Fields" was 794 Evander, Fairfield, Ga. 30213. Holyfield has a very similar address. When the phone number that, according to the documents, was associated with the "Fields" prescription, was dialed, Holyfield answered.[url][37][/url][url]
[/url]
On March 10, 2007 Holyfield made a public announcement that he would be pursuing his own investigation into the steroid claims in order to clear his name.[url][38][/url][url]
[/url]
Holyfield was again linked to HGH in September 2007, when his name came up following a raid of Signature Pharmacy in Orlando, Florida.[url][39][/url] As of September 2007, Signature Pharmacy is under investigation for illegally supplying several professional athletes with steroids and HGH.[url][40][/url]

 

They're not a magical potion, they won't make you Superman, BUT they'll give you an advantage over your own personal, natural abilities... comprende???

 

The worst part is that boxing wasn't just lax in enforcing it, it was encouraging PED use. As long as fighters were turning in superhuman performances and fans kept spending their cash, amazed at how much guys could "evolve" in so short a time span, everyone wins. The fans, the promoters, the casinos, TV. Everyone but whatever opponent happened to come in 100% clean himself (not that negative tests tell us the full story there, either).

And, if a fighter gets caught? No biggie. They don't even change the fight to a loss on your record, you get blessed with a no contest. If the courts catch you but you still tested negative, no biggie- you still got to keep your title and the tainted win (Mosley).

I'm under no illusion to how widespread PED's are in all world-level sports, not just boxing. I also know it's still not hard to beat even the best testing, but damn- at least other sports go through the motions of pretending to give a **** if you get caught multiple times.

 

They are indeed a tool that allows one to surpass their physical limits. If an athlete knows what they are doing, you can get "magical" results.

That sort of kills the leveling the playing field argument. Sort of like two Chimps fishing for termites. The one with the longer stick gets more termites.

RJJ, Toney, Mosley, Holyfield ect. ect. sure got their share of termites.

 

Hmmmmmm, I wonder why he never looked the same after that and even lost to a faded fighter who he should have easily beaten that night.... it's just curious.

 

They're not unproven at all. Most of the fighters mentioned by the OP failed drug tests. And you can bet if they were taking drug for fighters like Richard Hall, they were taking it for better fighters.

Exactly.

Are you claiming steroids don't work? Do you think Lance Armstrong would have zoomed across mountain ranges like they were supermarket carparks if he wasn't juiced? I watched a documentary on tv about a weightlifting contest held in some bikey clubhouse here in Australia. A participant had broken the world record, by no small margin either. Why isn't he listed as the world record holder? Because this event is unofficial, probably because there is no drug testing. If some dude no one has heard from a relatively small nation like Australia has broken the world record dozens elsewhere in the world probably have too. If these dudes are doing it without the use of drugs they would be foolish not to enter official contests and get the money and fame obtainable, yet they don't.

The fighters you mentioned just would have faced harsher defeats than they did with the drugs.

 

I think Roid Jones tested positive many years ago in Indiana for roids. Correct me if I am wrong, but it was reported.........

 

Huh, what was his lift & amount of weight TowesofIce? That is heartening indirectly, because it suggests that many folks are NOT getting away with cheating in the major meets. SOme years ago they changed all the olympic lifting catch weights a bit-just so they could have a clean start under more rigorous testing!

If you transform your very body & its capacities by making yourself a chemical factory of androgens or other means, it is akin to using a weapon in the ring. At least hardened fists or some such advantage, & PEDs effect a few capacities for strength endurance, & training capacity.

 

True. They all roided but all were great without roids. RJJ fought too many firemen and cab drivers to be considered an ATG. He NEVER fought his toughest opposition, and that leaves a bit of a tarnish on his legacy, but he was and great, just not ATG.

 

That's the whole list of your favorite boxers? Really?

..or are you not mentioning some to not appear as a hypocrite?

I believe even that list contains user(s).

 

American and slick = free pass for cheating, there seems to be an attitude of "it was in their food by mistake" or "it didn't make a big difference".

 

Erik Morales