Wladimir K historical perspective.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BoxingX, Jan 13, 2014.


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  1. BoxingX

    BoxingX Active Member Full Member

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    Let's watch a little footage to compare era's.

    Holyfield vs. Dokes 1989 -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UUjewzxfZM

    What can see here? Good athletic ability in both men, both displaying handspeed, with Holyfield superior. Both displaying good boxing fundamentals such as tight footwork, tight guards, variation in punching all set up properly and use of "control", with Holyfield being a superior fighter in the categories, but a nice fight none the less. Jab, in fighting, in fighting control, distance control, good timing and other nuances that shows ring IQ and just good boxing skills.

    I don't know how much more I can list. This was a fight in 1989 with the significance level related to championship as this in 2012 -

    Haye vs. Chisora 2012 -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tShBLAqJ58w

    So we can see in difference much looser punching, bad footwork in Chisora's case. Lesser ring control abilities in Haye, loose defensive responsibility in Haye, loopier punching in Haye. Bad jab in Chisora, plodding characteristics in Chisora. Lesser handspeed in both in respect to the previous fight above and no in fighting ability even on the same plane as the fight above.

    And if you can't see the difference and see that the 2012 combatants are just simply weaker, then you're watching with rosey colored glasses.

    What else can be said?

    This has been a trash era.
     
    BoxingX, Jan 13, 2014
    BoxingX, Jan 13, 2014
    #16
  2. BoxingX

    BoxingX Active Member Full Member

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    I picked Haye because he's a top rated HW of this era and Wladimir couldn't put him away despite his poorer footwork, defensive lapses and loose punching. The fight I posted is directly relative to Holy V Dokes era for era.

    You said this era is on point with the 80s and 90s. I just debunked that with two video's.

    Of course anyone knows that already that isn't a fool.
     
    BoxingX, Jan 13, 2014
    BoxingX, Jan 13, 2014
    #17
  3. BoxingX

    BoxingX Active Member Full Member

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    I've been reading here more often than posting since I joined. I'm not trying to come off that way, but look at this Elroy and other Klitschko fans that make them out to be something they aren't for whatever obsessive reason. They come off as sanctimonious and self righteous and have nothing to back it up. I'm a big fan of historical fighters that people like him act like are nothing due to being from a previous time, which is unfounded and has no logic or evidence.

    So I'm posting up stuff for analysis that can be debated. I feel I'm correct on this particular thing, meaning that they're overrated and this era doesn't even slightly compare to a strong era, which they proclaim boastfully that it's one of the best. Boastfully, when we're watching these atrocious fights that display limited skillsets, a degrade in athletic ability.

    If it's not obvious, then let's watch video that can't tell a lie and point out the obvious to put the myths to bed.
     
    BoxingX, Jan 13, 2014
    BoxingX, Jan 13, 2014
    #18
  4. bremen

    bremen Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :deal
     
    bremen, Jan 13, 2014
    bremen, Jan 13, 2014
    #19
  5. atticus

    atticus Member Full Member

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    Classic hater's thread desperately trying to underrate achievements of a top 10 ATG HW. :deal
     
    atticus, Jan 13, 2014
    atticus, Jan 13, 2014
    #20
  6. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    Povetkin would easily beat the majority of HW champions of the last 100 years. Many of the classic era champs wouldn't even be contenders today.
     
    madballster, Jan 14, 2014
    madballster, Jan 14, 2014
    #21
  7. theboss

    theboss Well-Known Member Full Member

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    :deal This is about as stupid as it gets :happy
     
    theboss, Jan 14, 2014
    theboss, Jan 14, 2014
    #22
  8. LeeJonesJnr

    LeeJonesJnr Active Member Full Member

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    The fact that Wlad has come back from being seen as a boxing Bambi who could barely stay on his feet to being the towering figure that no heavyweight can come close to toppling does go a long way to making him an ATG. It is common to say 'it is how a fighter comes back from a defeat...' etc - well, I think he has done a great job of coming back - don't you?
    Besides that, the man LOOKS like the heavyweight champion of the world, he is a great role model, a gentleman, puts a bit of theatre into his ring walks and generally is good for the sport. I would much rather have Wlad as the figurehead of the sport than any other heavyweight.
    The argument about modern era fighters beating fighters of the past is largely moot simply due to the ever growing size of a heavyweight boxer, the greats of the past are cruisers or light heavys today.
     
    LeeJonesJnr, Jan 14, 2014
    LeeJonesJnr, Jan 14, 2014
    #23
  9. JAB5239

    JAB5239 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Show me a German or Ukrainian boxing magazine with all time ratings. Please, link it for all to see.
     
    JAB5239, Jan 14, 2014
    JAB5239, Jan 14, 2014
    #24
  10. G Man

    G Man Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Some amazing mythbusting going on here. Keep up the good work. :good
     
    G Man, Jan 14, 2014
    G Man, Jan 14, 2014
    #25
  11. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    Is this the same Povetkin who was getting battered by the cruiser weight Huck? :lol:

    Prior to the Wlad fight many people were expecting Wlad to KO him easily but because he lasted the distance and made Wlad look bad he's now a heavyweight who could compete in any era. Gotta love Klittard revisionism. :nut
     
    Brighton bomber, Jan 14, 2014
    Brighton bomber, Jan 14, 2014
    #26
  12. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    Of course Povetkin would be competitive in any era. That's a no-brainer. Competitive means he would win a couple of rounds and have his moments against the leading HW fighters in any era, even if he lost the fight.

    Note I didn't say he'd beat all HW champions in the history of the sport. I said he'd beat the majority of them (> 50%), especially the classic era ones.

    If you disagree with that then we have little else to discuss. It's just common sense to me.
     
    madballster, Jan 14, 2014
    madballster, Jan 14, 2014
    #27
  13. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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    He really does have to rank somewhere 13-18 though...

    Quantity is capable of improving a legacy over time as opposed to great individual quality. At a certain point, he's better than a whole bunch of lineal champs before him from Ingemar to Moorer to Vitali to Burns... And then he surpasses and rivals a whole bunch of guys who are generally accepted as top 20 HW greats. Wladimir makes that bunch easily. Therefore, he is an ATG in his division, which happens to be rich in history.
     
    Nonito Smoak, Jan 14, 2014
    Nonito Smoak, Jan 14, 2014
    #28
  14. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    Ok you have clarified your definition of competitive. I could see Povetkin doing what you are saying against top heavyweight contenders of previous era's just not the true champions.

    If you include title holders as champions he might beat a few of them, the Hides, Seldon's, McCall's etc. I wouldn't favour him over very many, if any of the true champions like Lewis, Ali, Foreman, Liston, Frazier, Holmes etc.
     
    Brighton bomber, Jan 14, 2014
    Brighton bomber, Jan 14, 2014
    #29
  15. FilipMNE

    FilipMNE Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There were not only c level HW there was one A level(Vitali) but he never faced him, it is unfortunate that they are brothers but it does take away that he DID NOT face best fighter beside him.
     
    FilipMNE, Jan 14, 2014
    FilipMNE, Jan 14, 2014
    #30
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