Joe Calzaghe v Roy Jones Jnr 2002

I didn't hear that...

That hurts my heart a bit.. Best wishes to his family..

I got lots of wrestling stories... Feel free to ask away when you are ready...

 

Bailey,

I think Hopkins taking a fight against Jones was more pathetic than when Joe fought Roy...

I don't have a problem with Joe fighting Roy, I know Joe viewed Roy as a pretty safe fight, and a big name to go out on HBO PPV. I also think from what I have seen that Joe was closer to his best than Roy was.. I knew Roy wasn't the same, but was hoping like hell he could turn back the clock and beat Joe, and at the time was happy Joe was giving Roy a shot at his old belt.

I don't buy into Roy's "comeback" though...

Ajamu was a nobody.. Hanshaw was a SMW moving up to fight Roy, and if not for a late knockdown may have won.. Pretty much life and death.. I think he was knocked out quick shortly after...

Trinidad? That is just what Calzaghe Jones was, big names... Trinidad was so far past his best and his best weight, that fight would have been close if not for the flash knockdowns that prime Tito had a problem with.

Calzaghe-Jones was no legacy fight, and it would have been much different in 02 where Calzaghe would have been an even bigger underdog than Jones was in 08.

I also don't think they ducked each other when they were younger.... It just never happened. Joe wasn't fighting in Roy's weight, and it didn't make too much sense for Roy to fight Joe at the time.. It is a business, and both had children to support and took safe fights at times...

 

:rofl

 

Thanks mate, I'll pm you at a later date.


I've found this for you, regarding John Garfield/Joe Rein.

http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/17531-rest-in-peace-joe-rein


Go to the bottom of the page, where it says - You can find Joe's excellent writing work here.


Click it and have a look at his work when you've got some spare time on your hands.


There's some amazing things there.

I've read about 4 or 5 pieces so far. The one regarding Stillman's gym in New York, is remarkable.

 

Great post!

:good

 

Bailey,

Yes, but the point is this - Joe DIDN'T WANT to fight Roy early in 2008. He laughed in the Setanta Sports studio saying that Roy was past his best, and that he'd be disappointed if Roy was to be his last fight. But then a few months later, he rang Roy up and wanted the fight. So how could the fight have had any credibility after he'd said that?

Also, the year before his interview on Setanta, he released his autobiography, where he said a fight with Roy would be pointless at this stage, because he was no longer great.

It's been mentioned, but this thread is regarding Joe and Roy, not Hopkins. We all know what Hopkins did. You yourself agreed that he priced himself out of a rematch with Roy in 2002. It's one of only a few topics that we've ever agreed on. He only fought Roy in 2010, because it was safe to do so.

Boxing is all about levels, and the timing of the fights.

Of course Roy handled Ajamu with ease, they were levels apart. But Roy could no longer compete at elite level at that point. His last win against a top fighter, was against Tarver in November, 2003. He could beat the Amaju's of the world (no disrespect intended) just like he can beat the Max Alexander's of the world.

It's the same with Hanshaw.

Tito was finished. He'd been inactive, he was overweight, and he's NEVER FOUGHT SINCE.

It was a nothing win, and again, it wasn't the same version of Tito that Hopkins had fought SEVEN YEARS EARLIER.

Again, Roy beat low level opposition which he was expected to, and he fought a guy at the end of his career, who's never fought since.

My original point was, Frank tried to get Joe a fight with Roy, when he was 0-3, in 2006.

Then Joe dismissed Roy in 2007, and early in 2008, but then ended up phoning him up for a fight.

What does that say about the mans character?

How is that the same? Floyd's still fighting, at the top of his game. Tito was out three years, and hasn't fought since. That was the end of Tito's career, because he'd got nothing left in the tank. Also, a lot of people, me included, believe that Floyd just took the **** to gain an advantage. I don't believe that he struggled to make the weight like Tito did.

Yes, he put in a fantastic display against Lacy, but then he wanted to fight Roy, who at the time, was on a three fight losing streak. Why??

Don't forget that in Joe's autobiography, he states that Tarver was nothing special, because he'd done nothing much, apart from beating a past his best Roy Jones. So he was obviously referring to 2004. So that means that Joe thought that Roy was past his best in 2004. So why if he thought that, was he trying to fight him two years later, when he was 0-3? But more importantly, if Joe thought that Roy had been past his best since 2004, why did he fight him over 4 years later, in 2008??

I'm not going through this again. HE WAS NEVER GOING TO GET A GUARANTEED SHOT.

How could a 168, WBO champion have gained a GUARANTEED shot at the world's best fighter who fought at 175?

It was never going to happen.

I don't know why you've mentioned Andre Ward. But at the time of these links of yours, Joe's biggest wins were against Eubank and Reid.

Ward has already beaten Kessler, Froch and Dawson and won the Super Six. His circumstances are completely different. I expect that he'll go to 175 in the near future.


Lets have a look at some of these things in your links, even though I'm fed up of discussing it.

He didn't fight in Roy's country, or his weight class, so how hard did he chase him?

I watched this documentary (below) the other day on Joe, which was great. It was really enjoyable, and it was objective, looking at his career from different perspectives.

I'm sure you've seen it.

Ron Borges, Thomas Hauser and Kerry Davis all wanted to see him fight in the U.S. and Joe admitted that he wouldn't go to America, for less money, but FOR MORE PUBLICITY.

That right there, shows you the predicament he was in, and his mind set at the time.

He wanted Roy for big money, but without going to the States and making waves, it was never going to happen.


There's also other interesting things in it too.


Such as Enzo Calzaghe saying that unless Joe was fully fit, he and Frank W wouldn't let him fight.


But Frank W says that Joe wanted to pull out against Lacy with two weeks to go, and he and Enzo had to talk Joe into taking the fight.


I urge anybody who hasn't seen this to watch it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhSxpemf838

Joe was getting fed up of what?

What was Joe doing at the time? Who'd he fought around that time? Woodhall, Veit, McIntyre, Brewer and Jiminez? How were fights against those going to land him a big money fight against the world's best fighter, who fought in a DIFFERENT division?

Why would Roy have WANTED to fight Joe at that point?

His team along with HBO, were trying to get the DM fight, and then he spoke of moving up to HW to fight Evander Holyfield, after he'd beaten Gonzalez.

How could Joe have said "At the moment he picks his own opponents, fights the easiest guys, and gets a lot of money for beating them." ??

Ha!


What a joke!


Again, look at who Joe was fighting at the time he made the comment.


Look at who he went on to fight afterwards.



Simply put, Joe didn't want to do any groundwork.


Watch the documentary.


His whole attitude was - "I want to fight in America, of course I do. But it has to be right. It has to be the right fight."


But he was NEVER going to get that opportunity, without going over and having a few fights there to gain interest.


How could a WBO belt holder at 168, who wasn't well known in the U.S. expect to just suddenly go over there and have a massive fight in front of millions of people, for huge money??


Again, it was never going to happen.


He needed to do the groundwork, but he was never prepared to do it.



The world's best fighter was never going to knock on his door.



I've said it before, and I'll say it again.



Joe was a great fighter.


But his ambition never matched his skills.

 

Mind,

Here's something that I'm sure you'll find of interest, if you haven't read it before.

I've copied it from my friend turbotime (who sadly no longer posts here) from C H Boxing. I'm sure that he won't mind.


Rico could also do with reading this.



One Tough Bird

Roy Jones Jr., the best boxer pound for pound, was raised under the rules of c**kfighting: win or die


(9 pages in total)


http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1006753/index.htm

 

:roflatsch even after being repeatedly schooled, deluded clueless Loudon is still fully stuck in fanboy denial.

Now the stupid ******* lets slip this ridiculous (yet typical) assumption about more imaginary guaranteed fights - no doubt part of his whole argument. This must be why Loudon has been nonsensically pushing this hopeless DM "undercard slot" idea for so long. What a fool .

Bizarrely, for someone who bases their whole stupid nonsensical arguments on what Jones's "intentions" were or what he was "thinking", Loudon is contradicting his hero's own quotes;

"Let him fight in the U.S. on TV a couple of times so people can become familiar with him. I don't even know if he's good enough to beat the American fighters at the top of the rankings. I'm in the spot he wants to be in. I'm No. 1. I'm the one in charge.

"I'm a businessman. I didn't get where I am being a damn fool. . .It ain't hard to interest me. Pay me right, you've got a fight. Who don't know that about Roy Jones?"
5/11/00

Loudon's so blinded by his manlove for Roid Jones that he's never even had the common sense to ask himself why Jones never offered DM a fight. Always finishing with "negotiations broke down"..."talks fizzled out"

Loudon = moronic pompous fanboy freak with lower intellect than a slug. Laughing stock.

Funny sidenote: Doing a simple google shows this sad **** Loudon is also on the other forum (the name of which is censored on here) typing the exact same drivel. Pitiful.

 

Skimming through this clusterf*ck of a thread, it seems most posters don't have a clue.

I've never been interested in the Jones-Calzaghe argument as they were in different weight classes for the most part.

But why not drop a steaming hot **** on the heads of the Roid Jones fanboys;

Jones to go back to super middleweight
USA TODAY
Dan, Rafael
Sep 12, 2000

"I don't know if it will be the next fight, but I'm definitely going back down to 168," [Roy Jones Jr.] said after [Eric Harding]'s corner stopped the fight before the 11th round because of a torn left biceps. "I'm a true super middleweight."

Ultimately, Jones wants to fight Felix Trinidad, who would move up from 154. As long as Trinidad beats Fernando Vargas on Dec. 2, "There's going to be a Jones-Trinidad fight late next year," outgoing HBO boxing executive Seth Abraham said.
--------------------
Calzaghe ready for ultimate challenge
bbc.co.uk

12 September, 2000; Frank ******, Calzaghe's promoter, is trying to finalise a deal with Jones' promoter Murad Muhammed and is talking to the WBO to make the fight happen.

"Roy says he has difficulty in finding opponents but he has Joe Calzaghe - the best fighter in the division - waiting to fight him and ready to put his title on the line.

"I am close to making the fight happen and when it does we will see who is the best in the world," said ******.
----------------------
Jones-Calzaghe in works!
October 2000
fightnews.com

Promoter Frank ****** is working hard to set up a battle between light heavy champ Roy Jones Jr. and WBO super middle champ Joe Calzaghe at 168 lbs. Calzaghe has invited Jones to watch his December defense against undefeated WBO #1 challenger Mario Veit. Calzaghe said, “I hope my performance does not frighten him and put all the hard work that my promoter, Frank ******, has put in to waste.” Jones responded with, “I have no fear of fighting Calzaghe in Britain, I’ve got what everyone wants, I am the one who brings the dollars to the table.” Calzaghe finished with, “Just give me a date and time and I’ll be there.”
-------------------------
More jeering for Jones
secondsout.com

November 2, 2000 – Exclusive by Anthony Evans: Roy Jones, already under fire in Germany for his continued snubbing of Dariusz Michalczewski, is now facing flak in Great Britain after the unpredictable WBA, WBC, IBF and IBO light-heavyweight champion backed out of a fight with undefeated Welshman Joe Calzaghe.

Jones, who has held major titles at middle, super-middle and light-heavyweight, verbally agreed to a deal to fight the WBO super-middleweight champion in Sheffield, England on December 16. Richard Maynard, a spokesman for promoter Frank ******’s Sports Network, explained: “We offered Jones a very good deal to come to Britain and fight Joe.

“Frank was very excited about bringing him over here and he thought they had an agreement – all that needed to be done was actually getting the contracts signed. Then, all of a sudden, Jones isn’t interested.”

This is not the first time Jones has balked at the last moment. In May 1997, he verbally agreed to move up to heavyweight to face James ‘Buster’ Douglas. A pay-per-view date was set, memorabilia ordered and publicity and advertising set up – then Jones, taking the advice of his estranged father, Roy Sr. withdrew.

The Sheffield show is going ahead as planned with Calzaghe now headlining against former WBC champion Richie Woodhall, who lost to Jones in the semi-final of the Seoul Olympics. Calzaghe’s father and trainer Enzo says his son will just get on with the job in hand.

“The Jones thing didn’t happen and that’s that,” said Enzo. “We’re fighting Woodhall now, a former world champion, and we’ve got to concentrate on him. If Jones wants some in the future - he can have it. But right now I don’t want to hear about him and his tricks.”
--------------------------
Joe Calzaghe rips Roy Jones!
fightnews.com
November 2000

Undefeated WBO super middleweight champ Joe Calzaghe slammed Roy Jones today for passing on a fight for the 168 lb belt. Calzaghe said, “I can’t believe that Jones doesn’t want to fight me. He claims to be the best out there, at any weight. If you say you’re the best then you must fight the best, simple as that. Myself, unlike Jones, want to prove my worth and am willing to fight anybody to do just that. Jones wants to go in against deadbeats. I’m not sure he really likes boxing, he even insults the sport by playing basketball on the afternoon of a World title fight. Well I’m telling him, if he ever has the guts to fight me, I would advise him even against even playing chess before we meet...At least Woodhall has the balls to fight me." Calzaghe takes on former WBC champion Richie Woodhall on December 16th at the Sheffield Arena in Sheffield, England.
------------

You clueless clowns may wanna start this whole shitty debate all over again

As usual, Loudon in particular has spouted some complete and utter crap throughout this whole thread it seems. Deluded and totally f*cking clueless. Just making **** up as he types. However, if anyone wants a really good laugh, check out the "How do you feel about Roy Jones?" thread, where waffling fanboy ponce Loudon gets brutally f*cking destroyed by an incredibly patient General Sod.

 

Again, Loudon in particular hasn't got a clue about the Sanders-Jones fiasco either. What a load of embarrassing imaginary **** he's made up.

Let's clear up some more nonsense. Straight from Roid Jones' own sh*tty mouth;

------------------
Jones Vs. Sanders: Done Deal
By G. Leon

August 07, 2003; Just minutes ago, Murad Muhammad has informed Boxingtalk.com that WBA heavyweight champion Roy Jones Jr. will face WBO champ Corrie Sanders on November 8th. "The fight is a done deal," said Muhammad, who was still meeting with HBO when he gave us the news. He only had enough time to tell us it was a done deal. Much more information will become available in the coming hours. Remember where ya heard it first! (Posted 2:20 PT)
------------------------------
Murad: "Sanders Has Signed & Roy's Word Is Good"
By G. Leon

August 08, 2003; Murad Muhammad apparently confused the mess out of USA Today's Dan Rafael and myself yesterday. Though Dan's story gets the silver medal dropping two hours later than mine, both of us reported Jones Vs. Sanders as a done deal and quoted promoter Murad Muhammad as saying, "it's a done deal, it's been signed." I guess Dan and I should have been more specific and asked if Roy Jones Jr. signed the bout agreement. It turns out Sanders has signed on for the fight, as of now

Jones has not. "But Roy never signs a contract right away, that doesn't mean the fight isn't happening. He didn't sign on to fight Ruiz until just before the fight, and the fight was on. Over the years Roy's word has proven to be so good that HBO and all involved parties can move forward based on just his word." Muhammad makes it clear that Roy wants the Sanders fight, which is far more lucrative than a bout with Antonio Tarver. "Roy will be fighting Corrie Sanders, he has already climbed the mountain. now he is sitting on top, I don't think he wants to go down to valley."
-------------------------------------
Jacobs Says Roy Has Not Signed Yet
By G. Leon

Uh Oh: Doesn't This Sound Familiar

August 08, 2003; Based on a personal conversation he had with Roy Jones Jr. yesterday evening, adviser Brad Jacobs told Boxingtalk.com that Jones has not signed on to fight Corrie Sanders just yet. "This is not to say Sanders is not the fight, said Jacobs, though shortly thereafter he would go on to say "nothing is etched in stone, an Antonio Tarver fight is still very much in the mix, and Roy will be making his decision soon." When I informed him of Murad Muhammad's statement, "all of the documents have been signed" Jacobs said "I cannot speak on what Roy and Murad discussed because I wasn't on the phone, but as of now Roy has not signed any contract, Corrie Sanders might have signed already though."
--------------------------------
Roy Jones Jr.: "Sanders Not A Done Deal!"
By G. Leon

"I want Tarver more than anything else right now!"

August 08, 2003; In an interview that you won't find anywhere else, pound for pound king/WBA heavyweight champion, Roy Jones Jr. spoke to Boxingtalk.com and set the record straight.

The Corrie Sanders fight is not a done deal, Roy says that he will not fight him unless it is a unification bout.

"And to be honest with you, the only fight I really want right now is Antonio Tarver, I want that fight more than anything else," said Jones, who also confirmed that he will be fighting in November, which means he will have to make a decision as to whom he's fighting very soon.

"After the weekend, I'll probably know for sure who it's gonna be. But I could guarantee you it's more than likely going to be Tarver."

In reading this interview you will find one thing to be crystal clear, with the WBO saying they'd strip Sanders for fighting Jones, Tarver seems to be the clear cut favorite for Roy's next fight. Boxingtalk.com readers can expect an exclusive Antonio Tarver interview to coming soon.

GL: What's the deal with Sanders Roy?

RJJ: First of all Greg, you should know that if something is done I would have called you first man. Look at this here, they called me and told me there was a good deal for Corrie Sanders and it sounds good, but I don't know how legitimate it is because if they're (WBO) gonna strip him I definitely don't want to fight him. Secondly. I don't know if it's enough money there to fight Corrie Sanders, until they start paying me what I made for Ruiz, I'm not going backwards or standing still, not against a heavyweight. I'm not in the heavyweight division to just make fights. I want big fights. Sanders is not a done deal and I don't know what I'm gonna do yet.

GL: So if it's not unification you're not fighting Sanders?

RJJ: If he's getting stripped I ain't messing with it, it don't make sense. The only reason I was even considering the fight is because I don't have the WBO title in my archive. Ya feel me? If he's getting stripped it does me no good to fight him.

 

Joe.Boxer has literally torn Loudon a new one.
Joe.Boxer uses facts and details whilst Loudon posts on fanboy opinion and tries to call that fact.
Im surprised Loudon still comes on ESB with the recent schoolings he has received. I got bored with Loudon constantly schooling him while he tries to argue his opinion as a fact and change things to suit. He has even quoted what boxers were thinking before atsch.

Loudon, this is honestly friendly advice, but stick to facts and details, dont try and add things to suit, dont try and argue your opinion as a fact and dont use others quotes on ESB as to where you get all your info from.
Good luck for the future

 

Joe,

Why have you revived a thread from three months ago, discussing things that have been discussed numerous times?

WTF?

There's various links on three other similar threads, that counter everything you've wrote. Why have you even bothered typing it up?

Ha!

Nobody gives a f**k what Joe Calzaghe says.

Why?

Because at the end of the day, we know what happened.

In 99, he didn't want Roy, or tough fights.

He was an unknown 168 champ, that defended a belt that wasn't respected or ranked by the Ring.

In 2003, he was still in the exact same position, and admitted that unless he got paid the Crown Jewels, it wasn't worth the risk to fight Roy.

Nobody in 2003 was going to pay Joe huge money.

Go and look at the two documentaries on YouTube of Joe. Go and see what Kerry Davis, Jay Larkin, Ron Borges, Lou DeBella and Thomas Hauser thought of him.

In 2004, Joe supposedly wanted big fights in America, at 175, yet decided to stay at 168 (before Kessler and Lacy had really done anything) to fight Mitchell, Mkrtchyan and Salem.

In short, Joe's opinion on anything in the early 00's, was f***ing worthless!

Fast forward a few years, and he didn't want Roy, because he was shot and a fight would be pointless.

Then he said he'd be disappointed to fight Roy.

Then he said he didn't want Pavlik instead because he'd done nothing.

Yet, he then admitted he'd offered Pavlik a fight a few years earlier, and then he went on to fight Roy, despite what he'd said.

What a joke!

Nobody cares what he said.

His resume speaks volumes, and it's there for all to see.


With regards to Dariusz M, we've seen FIVE links from 2000-2001, and we can also view his resume, to see exactly what his intentions were.


With regards to Sanders, Roy pulled out because he wanted big money.

Why?

Because he was a near 35 year old LHW.

He pulled out of the Sanders fight, and he wasn't interested in fights against Tua and Vitali, because they were high risk fights for decent money. But he wanted Tyson for mega money. The two links regarding this, are on the other thread.


What was Joe doing while a Roy was debating whether to fight at HW again?

Oh yeah, he was fighting Tocker Pudwell. But we all have to remember, that Pudwell was a replacement for Thomas Tate.

Ha! Let's not forget that, because that's really important isn't it?

He was scheduled to fight a guy who Roy had iced in 5 mins, 9 years earlier.

Great!


So run along Joeseph, because you've achieved nothing here.


It's already being discussed a long time ago.


Nobody gives a f**k who said what 14 years ago, when we all know how things turned out.

 

Bailey,

I enjoy debating with you, but this is just getting tiresome.

You're once again, desperately hanging on to the fact that I said I knew that Roy wanted Hill while he was preparing for Griffin.

I said that, after Zod had posted an interview with Roy early in 1997, saying as much.

Let me know when this sinks in.

I didn't proclaim to be a psychic to the stars.

I just repeated what Roy had said in his interview.

If you want to see it, I'll post it up.


I've been on here almost two years, and nobody has come close to schooling me.

We both know that. You've tried and failed on numerous occasions.

Joe.Boxer is a laughing stock on this forum, and I'd be surprised if he could tie his own shoe laces.


I also note, that you're under the impression that Zod has run me down?

Where is he?

Because despite him being a knowledgeable poster, who I enjoy debating with, he's unbelievably biased, and he's contradicted himself numerous times, which I'll actually prove to everyone, if he comes back.


Now if you want to actually debate this topic further, instead of typing laughable nonsense, then be my guest.

I'll debate with you.

 

Spot on. Everyone can see Loudon for the clueless, deluded, pompous fanboy freak that he is. He's obviously got some serious issues, and has been wasting everyone's time with his crap for long enough.