Who are the top ten heavyweights who never received a lineal title shot?

Speaking of Harold Johnson:

He primarly chased the LHW title but was in talks to challenge Rocky Marciano.

His HW resume is quite excellent:

Godoy
Bivins
Henry
Satterfield
Charles
Machen
Bethea

 

Jackson is the standout.Sullivan can't really be blamed for avoiding him , he was semi-retired and past his best.

Corbett flat out ducked Jackson.

Choynski never strung enough consecutive wins over top men to really press his claims .

Maher had a long winning streak after being beaten inside the distance by both Fitz and Goddard in 1892 ,he went unbeaten until Fitz stopped him 4 years later.Trouble was Corbett had retired in the meantime and did not defend until 1897.

Slavin didn't warrant a title shot imo.His long winning streak had very few top men on it.

Langford is the prime candidate of the original Murderers Row he was clearly better than Jeannette and McVey .
Jeannette never showed enough consistant form to push himself in front of Langford.

McVey had been dominated three times by the man who was champion through most of his career and was never keen to try for a 4th time.

Wills has a strong case ,wins over his aging coloured foes, and most white contenders put him in the driving seat for a title shot , his colour however did not.

Valdes forfeited his chance when Moore beat him twice.

Ibeabuchi did not have enough signature wins imo, two victories over rated men in a total of 20 fights,he remains a might have been.

Morrison doesn't qualify.

A good argument could be made for Machen , whom Patterson was expecting to fight, but Ingo's Bingo queered that fight.

Jackson, Langford,Maher, and Machen are my picks.

 

Sullivan was to all intents and purposes retired when Jackson was prime.

You are getting mixed up, [ nothing new there,] Fox had a diamond belt made but it was not for Slavin.

He ,on behalf of the Police Gazette had a championship belt made for Jake Kilrain.
The city of Boston, annoyed by this made a subscription for a much more ornate and valuable belt, which they duly presented to Sullivan who said," compared to this Fox's belt looks like a dog collar. "

Sullivan never fought George Godfrey either.

Corbett did not meet Jackson to discuss a title fight , not was he willing to fight a rematch when both were challengers.
Corbett was surprisingly quiet on the Jackson front, only tentatively agreeing to a fight if it were south of the Mason Dixon line . He offered to fight Jackson there only after Jackson had indicated that, fearing for both his safety, and being doubtful he would receive fairplay, stated he would not fight in the Deep South.
Corbett had no intention of rematching Jackson, not when he was a challenger, or when he was champ and, like Fitzsimmons after him avoided the past prime Black Prince.


Once he was champion Corbett did not want to fight Jackson, he
refused a rematch with him when he was a challenger and only became vocal about them meeting again when Jackson was safely in Australia.

Jackson was willing to meet Corbett in nearly every state of the US, he also indicated he would fight him overseas.Corbett ducked him, it's a matter of record whatever you may assert.
Corbett wanted his protege and fellow stable mate Steve O Donnell to succeed him but Maher threw a spanner into the works when he kod O Donnell.
Corbett had no more right to name the men who would fight for his vacant title than did Jim Jeffries later.

He did it to ensure the title stayed under the pilotage of his manager, well that was the plan but Maher ruined it, and Corbett had no option but to carry on with the design.

Jeffries did if for $$$$, something which the notoriously parsimonious Jeffries was inordinately fond of.

I'm well aware of the pathetic reason for this thread ,I've only contributed to it out of ennui.

Now you want to turn it into who ducked who?

Instead of who deserved a title shot?

OK,
Corbett should have defended against Jackson and Maher.

Fitzsimmons should have defended against Corbett

Jeffries should have defended against Denver Ed Martin, Sam McVey, and Jack Johnson instead of fighting Kennedy ,Finnegan, Munroe.

But, being a red neck, racist, he would not fight a coloured man whilst he was champion.

Burns gets a pass because he eventually did fight his best challenger.

Johnson should have defended against Langford.
He was already Jeannette and McVey's master, and twice signed to fight Jeannette only to have the authorities veto the the match.
He also signed to fight Langford but Woodman could not come up with the $ to bind the match.
Whilst in exile Johnson wired promoter and manager Tommy Burns that he would be willing to defend his title against the best white heavyweight Luther MCarty in Canada.

Burns refused to countenance the match as he was pressing for a Pelkey v McCarty fight. All this is on record, and I've published the primary sources more than once.

Get some one to explain the term primary source to you, as I know you are a stranger to it.


Johnson never forgot his old friends, he paid for Sam McVey's funeral.

Johnson and McVey were good friends, who travelled and lived together for a while, McVey seconded Jack in a couple of fights.
Jeannette and Langford were never friends of his of any kind, he hated Langford like poison and was hated in return.

Jeannette never had a kind or an honest word to say about Johnson, accusing him of deliberately fouling ,[ accusations he made in a couple of his fights,] and telling a bare faced lie when he said he only scaled 165lbs for his last fight with Johnson .
All Johnson owed Jeannete was a good hiding, and he gave him a couple of those, dropping him several times in their fights.

Jeannette , like Langford was very vocal in picking Jeffries to beat Johnson something that made both of them look like a pair of dummies after Johnson had beat the **** out of Jeffries. Johnson owed them JACK ****.

 

I think H2H Ibeabuchi and Rudduck are the best. Legacy wise Langford and Wills are probably the highest ranking.

Pinklon Thomas, Greg Page, Dokes, Tubbs, Tucker and Coetzee all deserve a mention

 

No response from the OP on this? Why am I not surprised?

 

Is there anybody that we would actually install as a favourite over the lineal champion had they received a shot?

I am of course speculation here but:

I would make Peter Jackson a favourite over John L Sullivan after the Killrain fight.

I would reluctantly make Sam Langford a favourite over Jack Johnson after the Jeffries fight.

I would actually make Tony Tucker a slight favourite over Michael Spinks.

There was no lineal champion for Chris Byrd to fight, but his #2 contender was John Ruiz. If they had arranged a fight for the vacant title, I think that Byrd would have prevailed.

 

I would make Jackson favourite over Sullivan at that point.
Johnson didn't really show evidence of deterioration until he fought Flynn in 1912 and that was probably because he knew he did not have to be in top shape to master the billygoating Flynn, who did not win a round against him..
Flynn had beaten Langford 5 months before Johnson thrashed Jeffries.
I can't believe Johnson would enter a ring with Langford and not be in top shape , that being so I think he always beats Sam,and so does Langford's biographer Mr Moyle.

Tucker could have the beating of Spinks if he had a good night.

 

Nope

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...ttUjAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aOIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6831,491311

 

Y shud 1 giv e 5hit ebaut Lineality?
A "lineal kampeon" ken chit hiz wei in end dak hiz chalenjes 2 end dei du.
Woz aider 1 of Foreman or Moorer beter dan hiz pirs dyuring ze 1990s ?
Wu woz Lineal after Lewis' retirement?
Moorer woz not lineal sainc hi got bit bay Holyfield in der 1st fait olso.
Henc Foreman, Briggs (wum did not bit 4man sow I red), Lewis wer not Lineal.
Tyson chited vs Spinks, Holmes, Williams, Berbick, Thomas end evry1 els.
Norton & Foreman never lost 2 Ali.
Cautious Play got e gift shot @ d taitel end 2 fixt fait 2 hev it, den daky Douglas Jones, chited vs Terrell & got e robery gift vs Chuvalo end den dakt him 4 yirs.
Dempsey chited vs Sharkey
Tunney got e long kaunt vs Dempsey.
egein Y shud i giv e sh1t ebaut lineality?


born b4 1940:

Sam Langford
Lee Q Murray
Mauro Mina
Gregorio Peralta
Douglas Jones
Peter Jackson
Harry Wills
.
.
.

IDK - 2hard 2 faind

born from 1940:

Tony Tucker
Oliver McCall
Nicolay Valuev
Henry Akinwande
Ross Puritty
Corrie Sanders
Jameel McCline (robd vs Peters end woz der eny "Lineal" in hiz taim?)
Mark Wills
Orlin Norris
Chris Byrd


If Ibeabuchi steyd aut of Prizon, won vs Tua end hed @ list enader cignifikant win hi wud hev bin in zis list

 

lineal? who cares about that stuff. You fight who is in front of you.

 

Hard to tell with Mendoza.:hey

 

Jackson has a lineal claim, which kind of shows the weaknesses in the lineal title. But to play along I would put forward:

Langford, McVey, Jeannette, Wills, Machen, Quarry, Tucker, Ruddock and the brothers Klitschko.

 

Lineal is part of boxing history, and used to mean an awful lot, then the Internet came and seemingly everyone made up their own rules...

 

Technically, Muhammad Ali was lineal champ in 1970, so if Quarry beat the comebacking Ali in 1970, many people would regard him as lineal champ.

Vitali has his shot at Lewis in 2003. Can't get any more lineal than that.

Wlad is the current lineal champ. He became this either because of the Chagaev fight, the Haye fight, or the Povetkin fight.