I wouldn't disagree. In a division this stacked some superb fighters miss a top 10 berth. I do like it when some include Cerdan though. Although, having said that, does Steele belong based on that criteria? (I like Steele a ton, don't get me wrong, but he wasn't dominant.)
Sure, but Steel's got Apostolini (might rank higher than Cerdan himself!), Gorrila Jones, Vince Dundee (old), Risko, Lesnivich, Matthews, Overlin, Krieger and was probably beaten in his prime once, but arguably never (at the weight). He probably became a middleweight in '34 and between '34 and June of '38 he went 47-1 against some of the best. That's ATG credentials out of sight of Cerdan.
Never been that impressed with the 30s middles, at least not in the context where i'm told EVERY SINGLE halfway notable one was a borderline great fighter.Guys like Gorilla jones, Krieger and especially Risko were thoroughly unspectacular imo.Never thought Apostoli looked any better than someone like Briscoe, Roldan or Antuofermo either.
I don't think they did either - but I do think Kreiger beat Billy Conn. So **** all that other stuff. (He also beat The Ace Of Spades).
I suppose it is. I didn't know that Steele went on such a tear. What's the deal with one round KO loss to Hostak? Did he just get caught by a big puncher, or what?
Apostoli broke his breastbone. He never recovered. According to one member of his camp he couldn't even hold his hands in position for any length of time.
heavyweights are too big and boring. I tuned out when Greg Page came onto the scene. I knew he wouldnt go far Top ten middleweights Hagler Greb Langford Cerdan Robinson Jones Monzon Hopkins Ketchel Walker I hated to put Bernard as high as I did but due to his ruggedness , skill & stamina, he had more going for him and much more diverse than say, a Gene Fullmer,a Rocky Graziano or Zale. Hop would give Nunn a good fight title or no title, Burely wouldnt have made it in anyways
Not accurate. People put Hopkins in the top 10 based on "dominance" but look closely and tell me who was more dominant. Steele went 43-3-1 at MW in 4 years Hopkins went 43-3-1-1 at MW 15 years This content is protected Steele's losses to Apostoli and Hostak both came when he had his fractured breastbone injury and his third loss was after coming out of a 3 year retirement, after which he retired again for good so i don't count it. He did just as much in 1/4 the amount of time, fighting 10 x per year and their level of opposition isn't even comparable. His win column along with his dominance and i don't see how anyone could have him below #7 all time in the division. I currently have him at #5 but could also place him #4.
Nicely done. A guy on the cusp is Fullmer. Going 2-1-1 against even an aging Robinson is good, but add victories over Basilio, Webb, Tiger Jones, Turner, Castellani, Fernandez and Paret, along with draws against Tiger and Giardello that's a pretty deep resume. Gene didn't have too many nights off, that's for damn sure.
1. Fitzsimmons 2. Monzon 3. Ryan 4. Hagler 5. Greb 6.Walker 7. Gibbons 8. Langford 9. Choynski 10 Zale
I agree with all points. Though I would never argue against Monzon over Hagler, I personally would have Hagler ranked higher
Didn't rematch Lausse. I think Fullmer is well overated. Three of the wins you showed are over former welters and Fullmer was a big middleweight. When were Turner and Paret ever rated at middleweight?
Does Les Darcy warrant a mention? I agree his career ended tragically early but he did achieve some good results beating the likes of Chip, Clabby, McGoorty, Jeff Smith, Buck Crouse and Fighting Billy Murray. Fair enough it's not the deepest resume but for a young upstart to dominate some of these tough and seasoned campaigners in the apparent fashion that he did has to count for something. I'd say he at least did as much at 160 on paper as Roy Jones anyway.