An unbiased evaluation of Tyson.

I also finished reading his book just a few days ago.
I think in his prime he might be able to beat pretty much everybody but I do not believe he would beat guys like Ali or Lennox Lewis or Larry Holmes (in his prime) or the Klitschkos. But I think he does have a decent chance against all those mentioned fighters, I just do not know if I would favor him over them.
Even though I do not remember for sure if Tyson mentioned it in the book but I remember an interview in which Tyson said that "Razor Ruddock beat the sh*t out of me" and that he was pretty hurt after the first fight but his management just put him in there with Ruddock again a few months later. Ruddock was really a very hard puncher.

 

Things sometimes go that way. If you could take a peak Holyfield and put him against a peak Tyson. Take a peak Lewis against a peak Tyson. Obviously this would give a more accurate picture then the bums Tyson fought. Of course this is not Tyson's fault. I remember thinking the same thing about the bums Holmes was fighting.

 

I strongly disagree but your post just goes to show how anyone can spin anything ..

Pre-title he stopped Jesse Fergerson who was in his prime, who had defeated Buster Douglas, has only lost once to Carl Williams in a competitive bout and who would go on to beat Ray Mercer. He also defeated tough, large and talented fighters like Mitch Green, James Tillis, Radcliff, Ribalta and Frazier when all were young and tough. BTW, at this time Tyson was 19. Who were Louis, Dempsey and Marciano defeating at 19 ? Who was Ali ?

Berbick was a very tough, strong, determined fighter who went a tough 15 w a prime Holmes , defeated an undefeated Greg Page and had just dethroned a prime Pinklon Thomas. He easily decisioned a huge Bonecrusher Smith who was coming off his biggest win, a first round KO of Tim Witherspoon. Smith hung on for his life. That's how dominant Tyson was. Pinklon Thomas was 29 years old when Tyson destroyed him. Far from washed up. Tyson ruined him. Tucker was a giant with an undefeated record, a hugely successful amateur background and had just stopped Douglas. WE basically hd a repeat of the Bonecrusher fight with Tyson winning w ease against a man knowing he had no shot and who fought to survive. I can go on and on ..

The prime Tyson, Berbick to Spinks, was an astonishing talent and one of the most dangerous fighters to ever enter the ring ..

 

You have to remember the HW scene at the time. Holmes fading, a LHW taking his crown and no one standing out among the crowd of contenders. Except a 19yr old from the Catskills. I read about this teenage HW just before the Marvis Frazier blowout and couldn't wait for "world of sport" to showcase him on UK TV.
He didn't disappoint. He looked like clubber lang, fought with a teenagers speed and a mans power. He blew his opponents away and loved doing it. He fought all the time, it seemed. And he was my age!! Everyone bought into him, everyone knew everything about him overnight and we all bought the story and the hype. You tuned in to see when, not if he ko'd the other guy, genuinely fearful for his opponents. It seemed he would make as many defences as he wanted and become the best ever.
As I recall the boxing press were a little more realistic pointing to superior skills in Holyfield and lamenting the lack of a worthy rival. How right they were.
We blamed his lifestyle, wife, managers, friends, King....etc..etc.. for what happened after 1990 and seemed to start around the Bruno fight. We never saw fit,hungry Tyson after unification against Spinks I think. But we still kept waiting for him to return as he was.
I choose to remember him as exceptional....as a teenager of immense power, a survivor, a thrilling showman, and as the HW who had the shortest peak of all. He had to be the youngest champ as he'd no chance of improving once he won the title. Too much hype, money, celebrity for a young man.
I suppose I cant give a totally unbiased opinion but 21 year old Tyson was as powerful as some of the best and faster than most of them. His weaknesses were there but locked in his psyche, that's why we couldn't see them.

 

If you are criticising a fighter based on how people gave him a bit of a puzzle to solve, before getting brutally destroyed in the 2nd 3rd or 4th round, then your criticisms just aint hitting the spot!

 

Thing is Mark, if one wants to, anyone can criticise a champion's opposition. I find it a little strange that you make these observations of his opposition, but then totally ignore the fact that Tyson barely even trained at all for the Douglas fight.

If you have read the book, then you will recall how it detailed that Greg Page among others were practically begging Tyson to show up at the gym and getting some training done. You can't ignore that.
I think you're falling into the typically lazy thinking when it comes to evaluating Tyson IE. the first guy to show no fear and hits back beat him.
There is a whole lot more to it than that.

I don't think it's rocket science what happened to Tyson. He was a phenom and a hungry one on the way up. He won all the belts and stood head and shoulders above everyone. Then fame and fortune got the better of him and he thought he could cut corners, and like any other fighter who does this, he found out wrong. He had 37 good nights and one bad night up until that point; not a bad return. He looked to be coming back strong but then lost three years in prison, and was not quite the same force ever again, even though he remained relevant up until Lennox beat him.

I take umbrage to those who say he didn't have a long prime. For a short pressure fighter, he comfortably exceeds both Marciano and Frazier in this regard, and he fought against bigger men than either.

 

I've been watching a lot of Tyson's old fights recently, but not the obvious ones where he scores big knockouts, but the distance fights, like against Tillis, Tucker, Greene, Smith Ruddock II and Ribalta. (even though Jose did get stopped, he lasted almost the full distance)

I've really come to enjoy watching these fights, because it shows how Tyson fought in the latter rounds, and again when you watch these fights, one comes to the conclusion that for one thing, there was absolutely nothing wrong with his stamina at all. In none of these fights is he breathing hard at all, or showing any kind of fatigue.
Secondly, his punch output didn't drop by any noticeable degree, and he didn't lose focus anywhere near as much as it is often claimed.
I genuinely wonder if these fights are revisited by members of this board, because the old line is that Tyson fades after a few rounds, and really, when you go back and watch these fights, it's a load of codswallop.

Tyson shows a good deal of poise and maturity in dealing with a difficult opponent, the one exception being the Smith fight where he acted rather uncharacteristically by clowning and sticking out his tongue at one point.
But other than that, he showed lots of maturity and generally stuck pretty well to his gameplan, and in the Green and Ruddock fights, he sustained a tremendous body attack throughout the fight.
It must also be remembered that all these fights, the Tillis one excepted, were landslide points victories for Tyson.

 

Spot on mate:good

 

I have no need for a confrontation w you. I feel you spun an argument. It can be done w any past champs opposition and with far greater legitimacy. We're Dempsey's challengers better.? Louis bums of the month? Marciiano's small , old men's club? Ali's first title reign of a shot Liston, fragile Patterson, shot Williams, shot Filley and a half blind Terrell? I'm not looking for a debate for the sake of it. I just think your position is wrong. Tyson did not just dominate his opponents but he dominated a very serious bunch of big, strong, young, talented men and did it easily. He was a terrible human being and he blew his prime but for the three or four years it lasted he was exceptional. If we are to look at him honestly what he accomplished should not be discounted.

 

In retrospect, Tyson's reign of terror just gets better.

This thread = Fail.

 

Well done. Way to contain yourself.