I just saw this link:http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Ron_Lyle_vs._Oscar_Bonavena and I though,he (bonavena)went 12 rds with a very strong,powerful puncher who at 6'3" was 5" taller than himself.A man who took Foreman's best shots AND dropped him.He beat George Chuvalo,beat Karl Mildenberger ,lost to Patterson( maybe his broken hand contributed to the loss),went 15rds(and put up a hell of a fight)vs Ali(the awesome George Foreman only went 8rds),dropped,and lost(I read accounts many felt he won)by split decision vs Frazier,beat Zora Folley in a rematch,My question is,what stopped Bonavena from being a champ? I know he liked to party,was he a lazy trainer? Or too slow? Poor defense? Threw "clubbing" punches that prevented knock outs, than a more "correctly" executed blow would have achieved? One dimensional(like tua)?
Here is an account of Oscar vs Ali,if Ali was "the greatest" it says a lot about Bonavena(This fight gives us an idea how Ali vs Marciano may have gone): Round One- Ali (close) Plenty of dirty tactics by Ali in the round Yank Durham felt Oscar Bonavena had the better of the exchanges Round Two- Even Some dirty tactics by Ali in the round Yank Durham not impressed with Ali Round Three- Ali (close) Some dirty tactics by Ali in the round (pushing) Round Four- Bonavena (wide) Both men toe to toe with Ali absorbing most blows Round Five- Ali (close) Yank Durham predicts Bonavena will only get stronger as the fight goes Round Six- Even Angelo Dundee is puzzled by Ali's lack of skills, speed, etc. Round Seven- Even Even Howard Cossell admits the fight is anyone's, the crowd boos Ali Yank Durham points out Ali is fighting flat footed now Round Eight- Bonavena Bonavena aggressive throughout; Ali pushing on Bonavena's head Round Nine- Bonavena (close) Most exciting round, both men hit canvas on 'slips', and Bonavena hurt Ali Round Ten- Ali (close) Neither man doing much of consequence Yank Durham says Ali is in trouble Round Eleven- Even Bonavena's power punches off set Ali's jabbing Round Twelve- Even Neither man doing anything of consequence Yank Durham says Ali isn't the same fighter he once was Round Thirteen- Ali Not much action in the round, but Ali threw more Durham says he only has Ali ahead by one round Round Fourteen- Even Bonavena comes back in later part of the round Durham says if Bonavena could win the next round, it be very difficult to score Round Fifteen- ALI WINS VIA KAYO Up until the stoppage, (2:03) Bonavena was the aggressor w/ Ali leaning on Bonavena Bonavena got caught and wasn't able to recover, being dropped three times Up until the fifteenth round, Durham had it virtually even; my scorecard shows it as being 5 rounds Ali, 3 Bonavena, 6 rounds even One can argue that Bonavena had won some of those even rounds Because of his aggressiveness and power punches being more meaningful than Ali's infrequent jabs
I love Bonavena. He certainly made the most of what he had. He was extremely tough, tenacious, eager, and confident. In another era he may well have been a champion. Ive got the weigh in for Ali-Bonavena and Bonavena's biceps are RIDICULOUS. Friggin HUGE! Very entertaining guy. BTW I had him ahead when Ali stopped him and thought he should have gotten credit for a KD.
Bonavena was a very solid fighter. He reminds me a little bit of Trevor Berbick in a sense that he wasn't the most technically skilled but he was very awkward, very strong and durable which made him a tough fight for anyone. He'd be a legit contender in any era of boxing.
Good rugged tough guy. 'Ringo' was n't a world beater but would always give the world's best a battle.
Bonavena was an enigma. Sometimes he was good - Sometimes he was more or less horrible. Good wins against Chuvalo, Mildenberger and Folley 2nd, but losses against Folley 1st., Patterson and Ellis. Joe Frazier was saved by the N.Y. Round scoring rule, with points scoring, he would have lost the first fight. The second fight was a completly other matter with Frazier brutally beating Oscar over 15 rds. (And yes I have the full fight). People who means that Bonavena was leading after 14 rounds in the Muhammad Ali fight may have some kind of problem. Maybee they should check what the scoring was at that time. I would have loved to see a Bonavena v Jerry Quarry fight! when they were at their best.
He was very green when he fought Folley the first time. I can easily understand that loss. It was his ninth fight. Folley came into the fight with with 79 fights 68 wins, 7 losses, and 4 draws. The Patterson fight could have gone either way, a lot of people thought Patterson lost that fight. The Ellis fight I admit Ive never understood. Stylewise and based on their strengths and weaknesses Bonavena should have beaten Ellis IMO but then I always underrate Ellis. His draw against Peralta was a robbery and Lyle was probably just too big and had a lot more in the tank but even so Bonavena gave him a good go of it.
Bonavena was durable, strong, and game. He was also not fast, or technically skilled. You could say he not an easy night for anyone, but not likely to beat the elite. Today he would be in the top 5. Ali looked rather poor in this match. I do not recall the round where Ali could have been viewed as down. When did it happen, and was it the left hook?
Crude , brave , very strong and very effective but no doubt those that can't see past size would suggest oscar would be to small in today's heavyweight division and wouldn't make the top ten or even be competative . For me oscar would be a top ten fighter in today's division
foley no1, he was starting out and was over his head,schooled by a seasoned pro.vs patterson he suffered a broken hand.
I'm a fan of Bonavena myself. Nat Fleischer called him the strongest heavyweight he'd ever seen. I've spoken to people who knew him. As far as flaws go, he was basically just a big dumb kid who only got worse as the money rolled in. I remember an old magazine calling him a "headcase" with a poor attitude who "acts as if he's already got the championship in the bag and doesn't have to train." Charley Goldman tried to show him some stuff in the ring, but Oscar wouldn't listen, instead being disrespectful of the old pro and pretending to "trip" him to amuse bystanders. Gil Clancy had to get hard guarantees out of Bonavena before he agreed to train him for the Ali fight because of Oscar's rep for being an unfocused slacker in training. He had, by most accounts, the tools to be a champ. He hit hard, could take a punch, was strong as hell and had great stamina. Just no brains, no focus and no respect for those who knew more than he and could get him to where one would think he would want to be.
I read a story on Bonavena in a Danish magazine "Rapport" (1976). The writer Chris Wiffert tells about the death of Bonavena and the story about his own, failed attempt to interview Bonavena in Reno a couple of years earlier. He never got the interveiw, but went out drinking with Bonavena, they got in a fight with other guests, got arrested and Wiffert was placed on a plane back home. The most expensive interview never to happen.
hi,Surf-Bat thanks for your response,that is what i kind of suspected based on his personality and ring performances(inconsistant). i have question, when Nat said he was the strongest heavyweight,do you know how he can to this conclusion? did he lift weights? or just the way he could maneuver an opponent around in the ring? thanks.
