Joe jeannette Was Never The Standout Challenger

With recent discussion about Joe Jeannette , and some unsupported assertions from a poster named Jennette,I thought I'd take a look at his record during Jack Johnsons reign. 1908-1915.
I'll only deal with Jeannette's major fights during that period because ,as I hope you will agree, wins over nobodies mean little.

Johnson won the title on December 26th so that's 1908 out of the way.
1909
Feb L Sam McVey
April w Sam McVey
May w Sandy Ferguson
Sep D Al Kubiak
Oct w Al Kubiak
dec D Sam McVey
6 fights over name opposition 3 wins, 1loss, and a draw.

1910
Sept L Sam Langford
Dec D Jeff Clarke
No wins over name opposition.
1911
Jan L Sam Langford
Mar D Jim Barry
Mar WJim Barry
April W Al Kubiak
April W Al Kubiak
Aug D Tony Ross
Aug W Porky Flynn
Sept L Sam Langford
Two wins over Kubiak, one over at best marginal contender Flynn, a draw with Ross whom Johnson had toyed with.A draw with Barry, more of a gate keeper than a top contender ,a win over Barry and a loss to Langford.
1912
Jul L Battling Jim Johnson [BJJ]
Sept L Jeff Clark
Sept W Tony Ross ,[a dsq]
Oct W BJJ
Four fights, 2 losses two wins.
1913
Jan W BJJ dsq
Jan W BJJ
Jan W Jeff Clark
Jun No Contest Jeff Clark
Jul W John Lester Johnson
Sept D Sam Langford,[ Ist time he had escaped defeat].
Dec L Sam Langford

7 fights 4 wins one draw,one no contest, and a loss .
One draw with Langford was considered to be because Langford was not in shape.
Two of the wins were over Battling Jim Johnson, one by dsq. Jack Johnson would defend against him at the end of the year and manage a draw, fighting with a broken arm from the third round onwards.
1914
Mar W Georges Carpentier. Carpentier was only 20, but Jeannete was 35 by then ,it was a hotly disputed decision.
Jul W BJJ
Jul D BJJ
Aug W BJJ
Oct D Sam Langford
Nov D BJJ
Five fights with two men , 2 wins over Jim Johnson but 2 draws too.

And still no victory over Langford.
1915
Jan W John Lester Johnson.


Jack Johnson is Kod by Willard on the 5th of April and his reign ends.


Jeannette had three fights with Sam McVey during Johnson's reign winning one , losing one and drawing one.No superiority established.
Jeannette had four fights with Al Kubiak winning 3 and drawing one, definitely better but Kubiak was a marginal contnder at best.

Jeannette had one fight with Sandy Ferguson during this time , he won it.

Jeannette met Jeff Clark four times during Johnson's reign one win ,one loss one draw and a no contest.No superiority established.

Jeannette had six fights with Langford during this time' he lost four of them and two were draws , one of which was attributed to Langford's poor condition Langford definitely the better man.
Jeannette had two fights with Jim Barry during this period they each gained a win .No superiority established.
Jeannette had two fights with Tony Ross one a draw one a win via dsq Jack Johnson toyed with Ross.
Jeannette has seven fights with Battling Jim Johnson , He scores four wins , one by dsq,loses one and draws two. The better man but by how much? The champion managed a draw with the handicap of a broken arm.
I have excluded Jeannette's wins over Harry Wills because Wills was a novice then.

During Johnson's reign Jeannette never established that he was better than Sam McVey and he certainly showed he was Langford's inferior ,never managing a win in six tries.
My conclusion is that at no time between 1908-1915 was Jeannette anymore than a contender and certainly not the standout one.

 

Two months after the win over McVey, Jeannette lost to Sandy Ferguson and six months after that he drew with McVey.

What seems clear is that during Johnson's reign the best of the challengers was undoubtedly Langford .

 

More nonsense from the Forum's Fool.

In 1906 Johnson fought Jeannette,4 times.

Jan16th WND 3 rds

Mar 14th W15rds
Sep20th WND 6rds
Nov26th WD ND 10rds.

You need to get up to speed, hate will only carry you so far.
Stop relying on Box rec.
Jeannette beat Ross by dsq he could only manage a draw with him in their other fight. Johnson played with Ross. " Key fight? Jeannette lost to McVey in their last fight during Johnson's reign, some ten months after he had beaten Sam .That puts McVey in the driving seat NOT Jeannette
Jeannette beat Jeff Clark, he also lost and drew with him during this time scale.

You said Battling Johnson was a journeyman ,if he was, how come he beat Jeannette and drew with him twice?

Jack Johnson was handicapped with a broken arm for 7 of the 10rds in his draw with Johnson , what was Jeannette's excuse for his two draws and one defeat to the same man?

How absurd your thought processes are, try and construct a rational argument you are making me lazy.

 

The post was made by the Forum's Johnson hater. Jeannette was 27 years old when he lost his last 1906 fight to Johnson.

 

You could certainly say that for two months Ferguson deserved a title shot more than Jeannette , but as neither he, nor McVey, or Jeannette ever demonstrated superiority over Langford during Johnson's reign you could not legitimately call him the stand out challenger .
Ferguson was putty in Johnson's hands and resorted to repeatedly kneeing him in the nuts, so badly was he frustrated and humiliated by him.

 

It's a rap on Johnson really, because it reinforces how much of a standout Langford was during his reign.
I'm glad I made the thread because I hadn't realized that Jeannette never beat Langford during Jack's title tenure, so even if no one cares to comment further, at least I've learned something.

 

Yes it is always about timing, and these guys were relying on ships to take them around the world. Langford was" Down Under ",and he had a very good 1912, 7 fights and 7 wins , 4 over McVey ,2 over Jim Barry and one over Porky Flynn. He was definitely "the man".
1913 Saw him draw with McVey, and Colin Bell, and lose to Gunboat Smith. Not so stirling a year.
Johnson was in fair shape against Flynn in 1912, but some thought they detected signs of slipping. He would have had to be better against the 1912 Langford. As you said ,the fight was a realistic possibility in 1913 and Langford was in Aussie until late July of that year.


Was Langford ever as dominant as he was in 1912 again?