Which fight would have changed world history most if it had gone the other way?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Jan 29, 2014.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I'm not talking just boxing history.

    Which bout, if it had gone differently, would have had the biggest impact on world history?
     
  2. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Since we're in alternate history mode --

    A Nazi victory in Louis / Schmeling II probably doesn't change much. It was a symptom of international tensions rather than a cause...though it might prolong the color line in US sports by taking some of Louis's shine off.

    Burns winning the Johnson bout would be interesting. It would stop the backlash against Johnson that helped keep American sports segregated and (further) poisoned race relations in the United States. If Burns later defended (and lost) against somebody like Langford, you might have seen a small but perceptible improvement in American race politics.

    By the time we get to Jeffries/Johnson, it's probably too late to change much. If anything, a Jeffries victory probably cements the color line and further demoralizes the African American community. Not much of a change, and mostly for the worse.

    Ryan beats Sullivan -- This one would strangle professional gloved boxing in the cradle. Oh, Queensbury rules would probably win out in the end, but it would be a much harder slog. Boxing would stay a fringe sport, and the first sporting (not boxing, sporting) superstar would never develop. This, in turn, would alter the landscape of American sporting culture during the big leisure boom in the 1880's-1890's. Boxing was pretty culturally significant during this period (especially as a display / symbol of masculinity). Eliminate it, and you see a slightly different Gilded Age culture. As a sidenote, boxing is also known to inflict brain damage, so eliminating Queensbury rules this early would probably stop the loss of one or two IQ points here and there among amateurs. Not a big difference, but a tiny bit.

    It's a little cheap, but: Idi Amin suffers serious injuries in one of his fights. Uganda's a lot better off. Africa doesn't have to contend with a public relations nightmare, either.

    Ali wins the FOTC. Not a big difference here, but the American civil rights and antiwar movement gets a slightly stronger voice (for good or ill, considering Ali's divisiveness) during the 70's.

    By the same token -- Liston knocks Clay out. Malcolm X can't use Clay as a spokesman, which weakens his movement slightly. Maybe enough to give King a greater edge and change the inflection of American civil rights rhetoric during this period.

    Molineaux beats Cribb: Nothing happens, probably. Molineaux's not really in a position to do anything about the slave trade, racial perceptions in the UK, etc. It's really too minor, despite its supposed historical significance.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    We could obviously speculate absurd outcomes, such as Davis defeating Louis.

    That aside, John C Heenan defeating Tom Sayers, would have seen the world title cross the Atlantic much earlier!

    John L Sullivan loosing to Ryan or Killrain might have changed the direction of the sport somewhat! Perhaps bare-knuckle fighting persists longer, and the sport is not brought into the legal domain.

    Schmeling defeating Louis again sees the title go to Nazi Germany! Getting it back from there after the war, might have posed some difficulty.
     
  4. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hamed beating Barrera followed by a peace offering after his following fight speaking for all Muslims to America, just after 9/11.
     
  5. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If Liston had beat Ali in the return and Ali become a conscientious objector without the heavyweight title.
     
  6. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just noticed Cross_trainer already touched on that, i've just got in from the pub.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I wonder, if Vitali Klitschko had beaten Lennox Lewis would he have found getting the big job in the Ukraine easier?

    We don't know of course, but that could have ended up being the reason that the strategically crucial Ukraine goes with Russia or the EU.
     
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  8. richdanahuff

    richdanahuff Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali vs Liston

    Johnson vs Jeffries

    Holmes vs Cooney

    Klitchko vs Lewis
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Probably only with die hard boxing fans.

    The rest of the Ukraine, probably don't make much distinction between the WBC title, and the lineal title.
     
  10. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Would Ali of become the icon he did if he had lost to Brian London in 66? As mentioned the cliché Louis/SchmellingII would have had little change in 'history' and probably not that huge an affect in 'boxing history', so this thread needs a then and future icon losing to the most ordinary opposition available...
     
  11. Titan1

    Titan1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Johnson-Willard. If Jack had outlasted Jess, probably more racial abuse and then some.
     
  12. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You think so? Personally I think all that changes is another 'white hope' would have finally got to an even older Johnson, and then got their arse kicked post Great War to Dempsey...
     
  13. Titan1

    Titan1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Decent possibility, but Old man Jack probably had a couple of aces up his sleeve for them.