The "All Things Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

When Pac fought Cotto, Cotto had yet to make the jump to 54. Cotto had weighed in at 46 in his previously few fights, so he was basically dropping one extra pound from what he was accustomed to. Pac was 140 in his previously fight, and had only had two fights in the 140s. The catch weight was completely reasonable.

Pacquiao and Mosley fought at 147. What the hell is your problem?

If we're in the business of discrediting Pacquiao wins because of weight funny business, we must, by the same token, further devalue Mayweather's already inferior win over Hatton, as he had Hatton jump to 47 when he was lineal at 40.

Yeah, I agree with you here. I think most agree we can't read too much into the Pacquiao-De la hoya fight. It's not unreasonable to say Mayweather's SD win over DLH has more value. But by these same principles we should probably also say Pacquiao's SD win over Marquez has more value than Mayweather's catch-weight breaking win.

When at least you concede this point...

 

Harry Greb only at n.22 is laughable and discredits your entire post.

How is Joe Frazier better than Harry Greb? Greb beat something like 10 hall-of-famers and many more champions. Frazier is famous for beating Ali once.

 

i like this dudes posts.

 

disagree with that. had he kept his uncle as a trainer....and didn't agree to the bull**** catchweight...cotto wins. oh yeah...u have to acknowledge that it is an extreme advantage to have training footage of your opponent prior to a fight with them.

 

Cotto weighed in at 146 lbs. the fight before so am not sure the 145 lbs catchweight had much of an effect. Cotto struggled with the speed an the angles Pac used no matter who was training him he would still struggle with Pac's style also he looked good early in that fight nice an fast at the higher weight. I think he is slower watch the Trout fight he lacked lateral motions an looked less mobile. he did do well in the Floyd fight an yeah it is an advantage to have training footage of your opponent you are right. I just feel Pac is a better fighter than Cotto an would always out point him in a boxing match.

 

also people forget cotto was at 140 when he battered judah

 

i was speaking on when floyd fought cotto...pac and floyd were both negotiating to fight him. pac for the rematch...floyd for his first match with cotto. pac wanted cotto to drop back down to 147. if my memory serves me correctly, cotto was willing to drop to 150. pac didn't want it. i believe he knew they got away with it in the first fight. the 2nd fight with pedro diaz as his trainer would look nothing like the first fight.

mosley was begging for a fight with pac before he fought floyd. roach is on video saying that shane would have to drop to 142 to get that fight...and even then...he wasn't sure. don't take my word for it...look it up. he only agreed to fight shane at 147 after shane loss to floyd and had that shitty showing against sergio mora.

hatton won the title at 147 against collazo prior. it was hatton challenging floyd...not the other way around. i do think that hatton was on the downslide and i had collazo winning against him.

i think floyd held back against dlh in hopes of getting a rematch and the money that would come with it. i also don't make much of floyd not making 144 to fight jmm because it was jmm who called him out. u don't make the champ come down in weight if u're calling him out. that's just bull****.

it's not about conceding anything. i'm a boxing fan at the core. neither floyd nor pac are bigger than boxing. they both are full of ****. one hides behind a smile and his promoter...the other constantly puts his foot in his mouth.

 

You forget to mention one thing.floyd is 5-0 against these opponents,pac is not.last time i checked in boxing your goal is to win the fight and floyd have done it better against these opponents.

This is also a fact,however you want to cut it :deal

 

My God Farmkid,
another floyd thread, WOW so you decided against about attempting to get a life. too bad

Pac fought Cotto, Cotto had yet to make the jump to 54. Cotto had weighed in at 46 in his previously few fights, so he was basically dropping one extra pound from what he was accustomed to. Pac was 140 in his previously fight, and had only had two fights in the 140s. The catch weight was completely reasonable.

the cotto that fought paq was probably the worst cotto ever. no only was he coming off back to back wars, one being beaten into submission (loaded gloves or not it irrelevant, there was major damage done anywas) and a dead even war with clottey. hate to burst your bubble but cotto wanted and thoughthe needed to move up before an after the marg fight..

the worst part, worse than the beatings cotto was WITHOUT a trainer. trainers might not be important to you when trying uptalk paq but that was cruel of arum to give him a offer he couldn't resist when he knew the most importany aspect of his corner was missing. umm think its possibe he would've had a game plan with a real trainer. his whole camp was about getting into shape and making 145, no stratergy and no improving his skills never mind working on a gameplesn.

its indisputable that floyd fought a far better, better prepared cotto

Pacquiao and Mosley fought at 147. So what the hell is your problem?

ssm was coming off his most impressive performance and had all the confidence in himself for floyd. took an absolute worst thrashing he had ever experienced.

then about 2 years later he fights paq, mind you coming off the beating and barely scraping by with a draw.
the ssm had confidence against floyd. against paq he was coming off 2 poor performances.



If we're in the business of discrediting Pacquiao wins because of weight funny business, we must, by the same token, further devalue Mayweather's already inferior win over Hatton, as he had Hatton jump to 47 when he was lineal at 40.

dude floyd fought an undefeated hatton that was already a WW titlest.
paq fought a defeated hatton, floyd pummeled him and KO'd him dude.
and you reaslly follow the sport you would had picked up on the problems going on in hattons camp. once you have the fight beaten out of you and are left on the canvas you arent the same.. wasnt a 1 punch KO, it was a sustained beating.

Yeah, I agree with you here. I think most agree we can't read too much into the Pacquiao-De la hoya fight. It's not unreasonable to say Mayweather's SD win over DLH has more value. But by these same principles we should probably also say Pacquiao's SD win over Marquez has more value than Mayweather's catch-weight breaking win.


ODL was not even comparable in those fights. a healthy 165 lbs oscar or a 145 drained to death almost..

jmm was the same for both, (NO we cannot claim he was on roids) because he beat up paq then KTFO in the next fight..

When at least you concede this point...[/QUOTE]


in conclusion,
Floyd fights champions coming off winning streaks, paq had done the opposite.

 

he was 146 in the fight prior.

his coach for that fight was his strength and conditioning coach who didn't know **** about boxing. freddie roach's exact words were..."we're going to win the fight because there's no one there to fix his mistakes."

if cotto had stuck to boxing the way he started out...he would have stopped pac. instead, he tried to trade. the fight with trout was ****. i really don't hold pedro diaz in high regard like everyone else. he also had cotto leaning on his front foot and blocking rather than using head movement. cotto was much better when he sat on his back foot and boxed. emanuel steward understood this...and so does roach.

 

the zab judah fight was at welterweight. cotto's last fight at 140 was against malignaggi june '06. he didn't fight pac until nov '09.

 

First off Pac IS an ATG along with Floyd, he may not be top 10, 20, or even 30 but he's definately an ATG.

Secondly Pac did have significant wins before he fought Barrera, KOing Sasakul for the lineal flyweight title & KOing Ledwaba for the super bantam title are not bad wins at all.

You're also a bit harsh on De La Hoya, just because he eased off in the last few rounds vs Tito does not mean he didnt do enough to earn the win, he was also robbed in the second Moseley fight in my opinion.

Totaly agree with Hopkins being robbed against Calzaghe though.

Both Pac & Floyd are definately overrated, especially Floyd with this TBE bull****.

 

I have been watching boxing for around 50 yrs and followed the careers of many great fighters in that time. I can quite confidently say that Floyd Mayweather is very comfortably inside the top 35 p4p fighters of all time.
I don't particularly like his character outside the ring, but any way you slice it he is one of the most gifted all round fighters ever.
I think all too often Floyd's detractors will look for any reason to downplay his achievements just because they don't like him as a person. Certainly his money flashing and arrogance does not make him popular with a large portion of the worlds fight fans.
If Floyd retires undefeated after facing a few more of the top guys around, he will have made a pretty strong argument for being regarded as a top 3 all time p4p fighter and many will have him as their no 1.

 

I no that was a typo and we will have to agree to disagree I just think Pac had to much fire power for Cotto an it will always end the same way Cotto would struggle to stop Pac he couldn't time him like Marquez could an he couldn't pin Pac down Pac choose to sit on the ropes himself in the first fight. I feel that fight at the high weight would go to points an Pac would win. but this thread is stupid anyways.

I also don't think Pedro Diaz is all that they had one stupid plan for the Trout fight it pissed me off because I am a big fan of Miguel Cotto. and they had completely the wrong game plan.

 

Of course he is. Just gotta work on law of average and non-bias rating. Floyd is arguably the greatest fighter of his generation, a generation is around a decade in boxing terms so thats 10 generations. Granted some generations will have greater fighters than others but when you get to a point where the greatest of his generation isn't even as great as the top 4 of each generations for the past 10 then you're kinda being bias.

10 decades of boxing roughly. Floyd arguably no.1 of his. If you took the top fighters from each of those decades and placed Floyd on the bottom, you would still have him top 10. If you took every fighter that was no.2 of his decade and placed him above the no.1 of today's, you would still have Floyd top 20 If you took the top 3 from each decade you would still have him top 30

Sure it's not as linear as that, but law of averages. Greats comes in all era's and boxing didnt have 50 ATG in 1 era and suddenly only 1 in this era...that just what armchair boxing professors would have you believe.