Could Chuvalo Do As Well V Jeffries As Sharkey

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Feb 14, 2014.


  1. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    On the way out after the Armstrong fight, Corbett and Maher agreed that they had missed an easy "mark" in Jeffries. People were slow to warm to him until he had virtually cleaned out the division bar the top colored contenders.
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    In my humble opinion, Fitzsimmons is a top 20 all time heavyweight.

    He tends to get overlooked on top 20 lists due to his size, but if a 195lb heavyweight had destroyed the same fighters in the same way, we would be seeing him on a lot of lists!
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    One explanation for Fitz's vastly improved performance in the second fight could be that he seriously underated Jeffries in their first fight.

    It's a matter of record that he was drunk the night before the fight and William Muldoon half carried him home in the early hours,not exactly ideal preparation for a fight.
     
  4. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Actually it's my normal prep.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Up until last year I always put Jeffries as the best of the heavyweights before Johnson,since I have learned more about Fitz, he now holds that distinction.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Unusual, but not indefensible.

    What slingshots Jeffries above Corbett and Fitzsimmons for me, is not the notion that he was better head to head, but the fact that he simply defended his title a lot more.

    On a certain level, a champion chooses their own destiny.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jeffries received a lot of unfair criticism after the Armstrong fight, the ridiculous idea of having him fight two experienced heavyweights such as O Donnell and Armstrong on the same night was a non starter from the word go .His stock took a nose dive , but indirectly it might have got him his title shot,as Fitz saw him as just a big crude lummox.
     
  8. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Call me crazy but I still think Corbett was the best pre Johnson HW. He owned Fitz prior to the KO and after that Fitz wanted nothing to do with a rematch. He knew that at best hed have to come up with another hail mary to win and worst hed lose a one sided decision. Jeffries is hard to figure for me. He was so freakishly big and strong (for that era) that he may well have been the best but the success an old inactive Corbett had with him gives me pause. Its not my era of expertise though so I could be completely off.
     
  9. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The problem I have with Corbett is with the two Sharkey fights. Fitz owned Tom and Jeffries bettered him, he fought all three twice. I know styles make fights but for me Fitz did best especially if you factor in his age. Any of Fitz, Corbett or Jeffries can be argued to be the best.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Fitz said he would not give Corbett a rematch because of Corbett's behaviour before their fight, no doubt the fact that he was comprehensively outboxed early in their fight helped make up his mind too.

    For what it's worth Fitz got the nod from Johnson as the best of his time.
    The success both Corbett and Fitz had against Jeffries makes me put him lower than I once did.

    I don't have an area of expertise ,I just muddle along.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    My problem with Jeffries defences is that he delayed so long before giving rematches to those who had given him his best fights as champion. Both Fitz ,and Corbett had to wait three years for their second chances. Fitz lost his title in his first defence, Corbett in his second ,so the fact that they did not have many defences is not entirely their fault. Jeffries defended his title 6 times in 4 years.Two of those defences were mismatches.
    Still the best up till then'



    Burns had a very solid 11 defences over variable opposition in 2 years! Johnson 9 in just over 6 years.
     
  13. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If this sort of thing cuts it for you, okay.

    I agree with Vince Lombardi. You do it or you don't. Excuses are for losers.
    If Fitz actually got drunk before the fight, I don't dock Jeff for it.

    Jeff did his job.

    Fitz didn't, if all this is true.

    Tough luck for Fitz. It is his position in history which suffers for me, not Jeff's.

    For Fitz or anyone else, you only get one go round in life. It is up to you to show up ready to do your best. If you don't, don't expect me to cut you slack.

    Just my take.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It is true ,otherwise I would not have mentioned it, but this time you are either going to have to take my word for it or trawl for the info yourself I've already done that once for you regarding the fight reports.

    It isn't proffered as an excuse just possibly an explanation for the marked difference and amount of success in his two performances against Jeffries.

    In the first fight Fitz was three years younger, fighting a raw challenger he was clearly defeated, the outcome not really being in doubt at any time once they got to close quarters.

    The second fight saw Fitz three years older at nearly 40 facing an incumbent champion with the confidence that being champion brings ,a champ who had 6 more fights under his belt including 4 successful title defences for a total of another 60 rds of ring experience.


    Yet Fitz was emphatically more successful in the second fight?
    As I said it isn't an excuse and doesnt reflect badly or detract from Jeffries , but is it possibly an explanation.

    This seems perfectly possible to me , but then maybe I just want to beat Jeffries with that stick some more eh?:patsch
     
  15. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I for one do not doubt your word on the fitz drinking story , but if fitzs had taken Jeffries lightly in their first contest then there has got to be a possibility that Jeffries having become a successful and dominant champion himself could of taken fitz just as lightly for the rematch after all fitz was pretty old as already stated and had not fought a proper fight in how many years. Just a thought