Revisiting Rivalries Edition I: Jones Jr. Vs Hopkins: "60-40 I'll tear your ass up!"

Well Hopkins/Daniels sold 150,000 PPV views which was in the region of what Roy Jones Jr was drawing on his PPV's at that time. Yes Hopkins wasn't a big draw at the time I won't disagree with anything in your post regarding Hopkins. But the numbers Jones Jr was getting for his PPV's did not warrant him asking for such a considerably bigger share of the purse.

You are simply rating Jones Jr's marketability above what he was actually drawing at the time. Did Hopkins deserve 50%, probably not, but Jones Jr didn't deserve 60% either because he simply wasn't drawing that much more than Hopkins. A 55/45 split would have been fair but both were unwilling to budge which is why both were to blame for the fight not happening.

 

Hoping for Farmboxer to further educate your worthless ass?

 

You know what's crazy Jones Trinidad did 500k in PPV's when they fought and both guys were past their prime ..Jones had more of the name if anything. ..

 

While this is true, Jones still had a win over Hopkins which meant he deserved more.

 

You can't compare 2008 to 2001.

 

I don't recall Hopkins/Daniels being a PPV fight at all. It was an episode of WCB, which is a regular Saturday night broadcast.

I think even if you were to argue that Hopkins/Jones were near equal draws (and in 2002, they were not), the fact that Jones won the first fight, was the higher ranked P4P fighter, and Hopkins would have moved up to challenge for Jones' title put Jones in the clear driver's seat financially. 60/40 isn't an insulting split when you weigh everything. If anything, I thought Jones offering 60/40 WAS showing a willingness to budge.

To prove the point, Jones and Hopkins did agree to fight at 50/50 in 2005, after the DLH fight when Hopkins was able to show a track record of ratings success, but the deal fell through as Hopkins opted to fight Taylor instead.

 

Sep 2001 to Feb 2002 is not a year and a half you imbecile.

 

Indeed. Thanks for the catch!

 

While in a perfect world that would always be true in reality that simply doesn't happen. Did Mosley get paid more than Oscar in their rematch? Did Jones Jr accept the smaller share of the purse in the rematch with Griffin instead of taking the bigger share and a percentage of the PPV sales, of course not. Boxing doesn't work that way, it's about what you can draw.

 

Maybe you're right Hopkins Daniels may have been WCB I was going off memory but I might be wrong and confusing it with another fight.

I would say Jones Jr was the slightly bigger draw at the time, but not 50% bigger than Hopkins which is why I think Hopkins thought 60/40 was unfair.

I don't recall Jones Jr agreeing to 50/50 in 2005 but I'll take your word for it. But at that time Jones Jr had lost to Tarver and Johnson he was not in a strong position to negotiate anything above 50%.

 

That's only true if the A-side is a much bigger draw than the B-side. Mosley didn't get paid more than Oscar in either fight, but Oscar was a far bigger draw, so that was understandable. What is notable is that Mosley got a substantial raise in the rematch.

If we reversed it, and Oscar won the first fight and gave Mosley a rematch, you can bet that Mosley would have to take less money in the rematch as the loser of the first fight.

If you look at the history of rematches, the winner of the first fight has almost always gotten a raise. If he's the draw, he takes an even larger share, if he's the B-side, he gets a larger minority share, and if it was 50/50 before, it breaks the tie. Look no further than the purse for Bradley in Pacquiao I and what he's going to get for Pacquiao II for proof of that.

Even if we were to argue that Jones/Hopkins are equal draws, simply winning the first fight should net Jones an extra 5%.

Just to make sure, I tracked down the fight online. It was indeed an episode of WCB: http://sosoboxing.com/boxing-video-watch-online/bernard-hopkins-vs-carl-daniels/

So while Jones was doing mediocre PPV business in the 150-200k range, Hopkins had absolutely no track record to hang his hat on at all. He really didn't even have a track record of WCB ratings since he wasn't an HBO regular until the Trinidad fight, which only just happened. He had nothing except the B-side to Trinidad and a lot of cred among hardcore boxing fans and analysts.

I think if they fought at the same weight, were fighting for unification as equals, and hadn't previously fought, that 55/45 would have been fair. But those other factors have to count for something.

True, but it also took that long for Hopkins to show he could be a real A-side. Taylor was his first PPV as a headliner. If he really wanted to get a better split against Jones, he should have taken on some higher profile fights immediately after Trinidad. Daniels wasn't going to cut it.

The irony is when they resumed negotiations in 2009, it was Hopkins insisting on 60%.

 

Totally spot on there and I fully agree. But since both were drawing similar numbers back then you have to take other matters into account and that's Jones' win over Hopkins which gives him the edge. Business-wise they were both on the same level which obviously clears the way for a 50/50 split, but since Jones has a previous win over Hopkins he should get the edge when things are even business-wise. In the end, this would be labeled as a "Rematch" to a previous fight that Jones easily dominated and will be a huge factor in advertising and promoting the second fight.

I assure you I do know that having a win over an extremely popular fighter doesn't necessarily give you the edge when it comes to the purse split in a rematch. The business side of the sport doesn't necessarily always work with what happens in the ring. Better promotion, marketing, global recognition and much more is taken into account.

 

I find it comical to debate who was the bigger name at the time. Jones was Mr HBO. Getting big bucks for showing off against bums. He was the once in a lifetime type of talent. He was the draw for ALL of his fights. NOBODY bought Jones vs Ruiz to watch John Ruiz fight.

Hops at that particular time had nothing to prove his drawing power. He was not the draw in his fight agaisnt Tito. The purse and gate numbers for his fights following the Tito fight dont show us that he was a draw on Jones level. Couldnt sell out his hometown AFTER the Tito fight even.

Im sorry but Jones was a much bigger name at that point in time. Hops had nothing that proves otherwise.

And thats before we get into Jones being p4p 1, having to come down in weight, putting his belts on the line, having won the 1st fight... When it came down to it, Hops had everything to gain and nothing to lose while it was the opposite for Jones.

Nah, 50/50 was a downright ******ed offer.

 

"Who I am? Who I am? If you the champ, then who I am?

 

Jones wasn't rated higher than Hopkins P4P at the time of this, with most having Bernard ahead of him after the Trinidad victory.