Leotis Martin's KO over Liston. How much does it make you question Liston's chin?

it doesnt make me question his chin cause he was probably 45 yrs old at the time

 

When you are that old, it's a lot easier to get caught perfectly with a punch. Slower reflexes, reaction times, decreased stamina leading to decreased concentration, etc… It's not about having a chin or not. It's about seeing the punch and being able to get out of the way or ride it.

 

Do some research Lonis, he was not 45. Thats silly to suggest.

 

So true. Liston was born Mago Barca around 250 BC. By the time of the Ali fight he was 2196 years old.

 

Yes, I read the whole post, scrotal sack and all. Your problem apparently is allowing me to conclude that Liston was a good professional who obviously lay off the booze and wild ways when in training since he never failed a pre fight medical on the grounds of alcoholism or chronic drug abuse. He always looked strong and in shape. Better in appearance than the guys he beat.

Sonny won fights because he was both fit to fight and better than the fighters he beat. He was still extremely capable and very proffesional at the time he fought Leotis Martin but without recent competitive rounds with world level opposition Sonny was ultimately under prepared for a game and gritty fight at that time.

When Sonny lost he lost. Why does it have to always be that Sonny Liston only lost through either throwing fights, having an injury, or being a drug addict/alcoholic octagenarian?

I honestly think Sonny was better than Leotis Martin and that he had a good chin. He did not win that fight because his career had already run its course, he was under prepared for a good game fighter at that time who outlasted him. He had had his day in the sun by then.

 

I am not ignoring anything, I am taking them with a pinch of salt. If Sonny was as drunk during training as Foreman says do you think Sonny would have performed as well as he did? Surely, depending on the extent and how close to fight time it's likely Sonny would not have passed pre fight medical examination if he was so sozzled, remember Sonny put Martin down and even in losing retired Martin from boxing because of eye problems sustained in their fight. It cannot be the work of a drunk nursing a hang over..

 

Anybody else read the story about Liston and the 4 foot Scottish hooker in Mickey Duff's book?.

Difficult to hold anything against Sonny really.

 

I am the one who is naive? You are the one who is saying a fighter can pass a medical shitfaced! Neither of us are doctors but I suspect that a Dr Ferdie Pacheco would have something to say about that. Binge drinking and alcohol dependency are entirely different things. It's like saying we are all alcoholics on holiday, that would be insulting to someone who lives with a dependency wouldn't it? If only 24 hours were enough for an alcoholic who has supposedly ran and trained enough over the previous weeks to perform at world level! Can you imagine training whilst you are loaded over any length of time? I'm not talking taking a little nip of something just for the taste, I am talking of what you said "shitfaced" loaded. It's not like bluffing an eye test.

I think it is incredibly naive to imply Liston only lost at world level when a fight was fixed or after he became a drunken substance abuser. Why can't it be that he was older and less used to gruling, competative resistance from a younger fighter at that stage of his career?

 

by that stage in his career liston was too old and slow to even rotate his waist and turn his hip into a right hand after he jabbed.
to say he was chinny is like saying ali lacked courage because he was stopped against holmes.

 

which fights did robinson drink before, I always thought he was the consummate professional ??

 

by the mid 60s he was knocking on a bit and his opponents had to be hand picked but he was still good for a 40 odd year old boxer who by then had had over 250 fighter amateur and pro.
a poor record against british fighters though eh hahahaha