Who did you perceive as being at a greater disadvantage for Hagler vs Leonard?

Leonard ducked Hagler for years. And then, as he clearly states in interviews himself, waited until he saw a physical decline before he finally found his bollocks and decided to fight him

 

I wholeheartedly agree! :happy

 

What's the sense in debating with someone who's attempting to put forward the most inane of arguments? You cannot attempt to reason with such stupidity. All I can do is treat it for what it is, so don't take it personal and go all soppy on us, squire.

 

Case in point:

By the way, Elton, why was your boy throwing out the name of a guy who'd just been comprehensively schooled by that heartless, overrated plodder, Wilfred Benitez? Seemed awfully keen on the idea of fighting welterweights and junior middleweights, but I never once heard him reference Michael Spinks or Dwight Muhammad Qawi in that interview. Why is that, Elton?

 

Leonard was at the greater disadvantage. By far. Anyone who was around at the time knows that. Any honest person knows that.

I honestly thought Hagler won the fight, but it was close. Felt sorry for him really. Even with a close decision loss here, Leonard would have walked away with the glory, such were the odds. That's why I can understand Hagler's bitterness.
Of course, Hagler has himself to blame, shouldn't have allowed it to be close like that.

 

throwing out what name? Hamsho?

it was Wilfred who shitted in his trunks the entire 12 rounds and lost

people like you (any leonard fan) just cant be trusted to tell the truth and most often resort to fabrication and spreading misinformation

becuz the truth hurts you so u fabricate cuz u have to :yep

fabrications like "Leonard NEVER tired in his prime"

no? then why did he keep slowing down throughout the fight and let Duran continue to outpunch & outhustle him?


also, "leonard had his career cut short becuz of his eye"


is that why he kept taking fights till the age of 40 beginning at age 27?


also, Hagler only picked fights with SMALLER men

his record shows several opponents with height advantages of severa inches, standing over 6 feet

want names? Obel, Monroe, Hearns, Geraldo, Hart, Watts

he just had a way of cutting them down to size which u somehow overlooked

the fact that u keep bringing this futile matter up is your way of bringing more prestige to help a sorely thin record in need of embellishment (I'm talking about leonard of course)

might I ask, while Leonard was still active, why did he fail to meet up with better opposition and faster opponents, rather than meeting with the more stale, slower variety; Duran 3 over Nunn, K. howard over Hagler, Lalonde over McCallum, no Pryor, no Curry, etc

seems to me Sugar Ray had muchbetter success fighting slow, one dimensional plodders even tho large but very poor results vs speedy, mobile opponsnts

I believe the alst time I brought this up, u had little to say

and really, what CAn u say?

I believe your usual tactic is "why do u keep bringing up Norris? Let's concentrate on Hagler instead of Leonard's failings as a fighter. PLEASE?"

too bad for u Norris fukked up leonard and Camacho knocked him out!

think of the time u would have otherwise boasting how Leonard was too smart for everyone else and was never knocked out (only Hags could make that claim)

 

dont talk to me about honesty. I know it's a free country and anyone can say what they want just as I have the right to dispute

any honest person would stop denying Leonard took the fight on account of Hagler's decline becuz he never want any part of him in the years prior

remember? it says so right on the tape. round 6 @ 2: 40

there are all kinds of confessions made in public

u can ask Roldan "thanks for softening him up for me buddy"

ask Micheal J Fox "I can beat him!".

why in years 81-85 did he not make that same claim?

do u honestly think Ray wouldve come back for Hagler if he wasnt severely hampered?

he put atty Mike Trainer up to it to give the appearance of Ray wanting the fight but would effectively prevent the match, using every trick known to lawyers. that's what Ray paid him for!


upon watching Hags decline, Ray came running to Hagler. we all remember it

if anyone lacks the honesty to face facts, it's leonard who wont admit he wouldnt face a man he knew would knock him stiff. Ray knew it. Angelo knew it and his own atty knew it

Ray was a little coward and I think it's cool the way Hector used his own ego to bait him into dancing

 

I agree that Leonard only took the fight because he knew Hagler was obviously declined.

But he was still at the greater disadvantage. His own inactivity and the fact that he had no proven record against legit middleweights were serious handicaps.
Hence the odds.

 

I was referring to that geezer from Panama - ya know, the guy that had never fought at middleweight; the guy the plodding, heartless, overrated Wilfred Benitez gave a comprehensive boxing lesson to just a few months earlier? Same guy that fought Marvis two years later - older, slower, not long removed from losing to Kirkland Laing - and, through long stretches of their bout, made the supposed best fighter on the planet look like an absolute dunce.


You know the guy, Elton, surely.

This f*cking dolt using height as a sole measuring stick in determining size


What we've got here is an overprotected stiff with a bit of a dig, a journeyman, a fighter who peaked at two lower weight classes and three average fringe contenders that had no relevancy to world level.


I'd ask you to provide a list of world class fighters Hagler actually moved up in weight for but I'm afraid I'd simply be pissing in the wind.

 

Yeah. Marty McFly should have taken his ass back to 1982, see what the punk ass ***** says then.

 

Do you use boxrec as a source for fights?

Duran - Hagler was not as close as the scorecards lead people to believe. Even though Duran did put up a great fight. Trying to make Duran out to be completely useless by the time he fought Hagler is ridiculous, especially using Benitez's win over him against him.

Firstly styles make fights, secondly Duran did not get completely schooled in that fight like you are making out.

By the logic you are using, Fighter A should only get credit for beating Fighter B if Fighter B is undefeated. Otherwise he is just beating someone that someone else had already 'schooled'.

And the fact that you mentioned in another post that Hagler only fought welterweights shows that you know sweet **** all about his career. He fought the best middles around on his way to becoming champion. The reason he fought some people who had gone up in weight once he was champion is because those were the money fights.

Hagler was a career middleweight and would have struggled to fight any higher, but that doesn't mean he should turn down a big money fight with a former welterweight if they are now in his division. Regardless of that Duran went on to win a belt from Barkley at middleweight so clearly it's not as if Hagler was fighting a shell.

 

I never even mentioned the scorecards, you dingleberry. My comment was in reference to how lost and confused Hagler looked against Duran "through long stretches of their bout", which is something that is acknowledged by just about everyone without an agenda.


Duran was comprehensively outboxed by Benitez, regardless of how close the judges had it (bet you'd have no issue using boxrec as source in this case, eh? ) and that was a younger, fresher Duran at that (and against a guy who was closer to him in size.) Hagler's performance against Duran is of absolutely no credit to him; he struggled tremendously with a guy that, on paper, was easy pickings. Quite appropriately, that's exactly how Hagler finished his career, too.


I've made quite a few posts in this thread and you won't find a single one where I state that he (Hagler) "only fought welterweights", not even through hyperbole. I stated he actively called out fighters from lower weight classes to provide him with big money fights, but he never had the balls to call out fighters above his weight class, which is an irrefutable fact.

 

Good points MM. Though it is classic intolerant folly that someone must see an argument their way or else they are a liar (Unforgiven).
But I forgive him.

 

Hagler struggled tremendously with Duran?

'An irrefutable fact'? So you were part of Hagler's managerial team then? you know with all certainty that he never called out bigger guys out of fear? Is it that unthinkable these days that a fighter would commit the terrible sin of staying at the weight they feel comfortable at?

Hearns was telling the world how he would go up in weight and beat Hagler for a while before their fight initially got signed (the first one that was called off due to a Hearns injury)

And through watching the career sets I have of Leonard and Hagler, the demand for them two to fight (which btw was about 5 years before Leonard decided he would) came from fans and people in the boxing business.