"If you retire undefeated it means you didn't fight everyone you were supposed to"

Joe had bigger fish to fry.

 

no, he didn't, he had money to make in an easier way.

40something roy jones is not bigger fish than carl froch, not in anyones estimation.

 

You can't lay any blame with Roy regarding this. The onus was on Joe. Roy was never going to go out of his way to make the fight. Like you've said, they were in different weight classes. Roy was at 175 before Joe had beaten Eubank for the vacant WBO title.

 

Joe Frazier only had 37 pro fights? Sugar Ray Leonard only had 40 fights... so what's your point exactly?

 

Ottke was number one with Ring Magazine. that in itself tells you the real worth of the ranking.
Calzaghe had cemented his place as the best at the weight with wins over Eubank and Reid.

what are you talking about?? Calzaghe had no problem travelling for fights that made sense. he's done so 4 times. Ottke is the one who didn't travel.
Joe even made it public to Ottke's team that he was willing to do the fight in Germany. still they had no desire for the fight. Ottke was a no go. it would have been the same if it was Froch in the same position as Joe.

Wa55en "risks" him against Eubank, Reid, Lacy, Hopkins etc etc. but sees Ottke as someone who's a danger to Calzaghe?? :rofl Wa55en knew what everyone knew at the time... that Joe would have spanked Sven good and proper. there was nothing to fear.

Johnson would have been a good name to have on the record, i'm not saying he wouldn't be. but he's not someone you need to have on there.

the Lucas and Beyer fights never happened because they were asking for stupid money that made it impossible to get them done. Joe was only making half a Mill for his defences. and considering that he's the main guy in the fight, the other guy asking for Millions to step in there, made it financially impossible.

Wa55en would have made more money from Joe's career by having him fight the best, so that doesn't even make sense. getting a cut from half a Million isn't anywhere near as good as getting a cut of a multi Million pay check.

Froch was a nobody at the time. nobody knew who he was other than in Nottingham. he wasn't highly rated by most in the business at the time. you don't turn down a Hopkins fight to take that one on. to suggest he should have is clearly moronic in the extreme.
people give Joe **** for not taking on the best (yourself included) for what ever reasons, but here you are saying he should have taken on a relatively unknown fighter instead of the big one for the Lineal title at another weight. the mind boggles, it really does.

Groves was more out there and known a whole lot more than Froch was. his win over an unbeaten Gold medalist made sure of that.

Kirkland had been out of the ring for ages when he stepped in there with Ishida. and Lewis didn't train before he fought Rahman. he turned up in Africa only ten days before the fight so wasn't ready for the Altitude change. that's why they both lost those fights. nothing else. so your argument falls flat there.

Joe did not duck Froch in any way.

 

we've done this a Thousand times before. the same arguments. do we really need to go over it again?

 

i know you're only trying to big Glen up because he slaughtered Jones. Joe didn't need him in any way. it's minor to the bigger picture.

 

you can't on one hand dog Joe out for not fighting the best, then on the other claim he should have fought a nobody at the time in Froch over a fighter as proven as Bernard Hopkins.

that just makes you look really silly and in over your head when discussing the topic at hand.

 

much bigger.

 

Joe took the WBC off of Kessler, which Carl was the mandatory for. so the next fight after that was Hopkins for the Lineal at LHW, not Jones you idiot.

 

sorry, i forgot. Roy was some sort of special case where he didn't need to make a move to fight the best out there. that lay with all the other guys that wanted him even though Jones made it highly difficult to get him in the ring. :nut

take your tongue out of Jones' Arsehole will you Loudon. your breath is starting to smell like ****.

 

Why don't you go and educate yourself, instead of deluding yourself?

Why would the worlds best fighter and unified 175 champ, have gone out of his way to fight a WBO belt holder at 168, who was hardly known in the U.S.?

WHY???? atsch

 

Calzaghe fought 10 bums during his reign of 21 you silly git. Dunno if you were a fan at the time. Was agonising to watch, always hoping he found a proper opponent for once, until he fought Lacy and proved himself. He was looking to fight Pavlik instead of Jones, but left w-arren, so could've fought Froch then.

 

Groves known a whole lot more before Froch prior to their first fight - your talking utter drivel again.

Every fighter has excuses when they lose, like Lewis and Rahman. Why did Lewis "not train" - that's his fault. Calzaghe had brittle hands - he rarely sparred, that might've been a factor anytime. He also had long lay-offs. Do you discount Rahman over Lewis and Ishida over Kirkland then? Obviously Lewis and Kirkland are the better fighters, but they still fought those guys and lost. If they didn't fight them, everyone would be saying "of course they'd beat them", but they took the fights and look what happened.

Of course Johnson is not a name you "need to have on there", but it would've been better than 10 of Calzaghe's title defences, just like Beyer, Ottke and Lucas. I don't see how W-arren would make more money from Calzaghe fighting someone like Lucas who wasn't known in England and asked for more money as the higher belt-holder.

I don't think you understand how W'arren works - "asking for stupid money". How do you think Bute came over for Froch? To get top quality sometimes you take a risk with short money for legacy-sakes instead of easy defences.

So, Calzaghe traveled for Hopkins at the end and Jones when they were both free agents. Please don't change history to make it seem like he would've gone to Germany for Ottke because the other people he fought abroad were absolute tosh.

Do you think Calzaghe would've joined the super six and fought Ward in America - do me a favor? Everyone including me thought Calzaghe would smash Ottke (generally recognised as the number 1) so he should've gone over to Germany to do it...

 

the point of this conversation is about Froch vs Calzaghe. so when Joe made the bulk of those defences, Froch wasn't around to fight. so you're missing the point on that one.

i watched Joe from the get-go.

Wa55en was the one looking for the Pavlik fight, not Joe. he preferred Jones because he'd always wanted the fight, plus it made more money.

Joe was at LHW at the time you're saying they should have fought. Froch wouldn't have moved up because he always wanted the WBC belt at SMW. Joe wouldn't have shed the weight again to go back down.

it was a no go. Joe had made it clear that he was having one more fight after Hopkins. Jones got the gig. Joe certainly wasn't going to turn all that money down by fighting Froch. it just wasn't happening.