What is YOUR definition of Boxings P4P?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014.


Page 1 of 2
  1. SweetSciGuru

    SweetSciGuru Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,132
    5
    Feb 23, 2014
    After reading people's comments on their pound for pound list decisions, it becomes clear that many people either use existing rankings, use personal favorites, or clearly don't understand what the p4p list stands for.

    Prior to asking for someone's p4p list, I think due to the fluid nature of the term, one should first establish a clear, universally acknowledged understanding of the criteria used for building the list.

    For me, p4p is a measurement of the fighter's skill level independent of physical weight or size attributes.

    Skill level is determined by;

    1. Ring generalship (Speed, Movement, Ring IQ)
    2. offensive effectiveness
    3. defensive skill set
    4. Punch technique
    5. Endurance
    6. Opposition defeated

    Considering all of the above, my Pound for pound lists is a hypothetical list which attempts to rank boxers on the absolute value of their skill, independent of size, so if all the boxers were the same weight who would be the best.

    Does your definition agree with mine, or am I missing some factor you include in yours, or am I completely out of the mainstream? :deal

    The Ring uses the following loose definition for their p4p rankings:
     
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    #1
  2. jas

    jas ★ Legends: B-HOP ; PAC ★ Full Member

    16,150
    11
    Jan 14, 2011
    in order of importance 1 being most important:

    1. overall skill level
    2. recent wins
    3. stature in own weight division. toughness of weight division
    4. career accomplishments
    5. inactivity
    6. excitement
     
    jas, Mar 24, 2014
    jas, Mar 24, 2014
    #2
  3. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

    41,963
    3,441
    Jun 30, 2005
    Basically, who would win if they were the same weight. Recent performances and opposition help you reach that conclusion.

    It gets tricky, which is why I tend to not take it too seriously. Throughout his career, Mayweather has generally weighed less on fight night than his opponents, however he usually has a reach advantage due to his very long arms. So if we are gonna compare a P4P matchup, with say, Andre Ward, what kind of heights and reaches are we giving them? Other guys like Marvin Hagler & Shane Mosley had very long arms for their height.

    I don't take it too seriously, but I suppose it's the most "prestigious" title now since there are like 4,212 belts in each divisionn.

    Note: the term was NOT invented for Sugar Ray Robinson. Just a myth. It was used well before SRR, although he may have helped popularize the term.
     
    Thread Stealer, Mar 24, 2014
    Thread Stealer, Mar 24, 2014
    #3
  4. SweetSciGuru

    SweetSciGuru Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,132
    5
    Feb 23, 2014
    It's all theoretic, but attempts to inject both objectivity and scientific/Statistical knowns by making the assumption that the fighters skill would carry over to higher/lower weights.

    I mean, if you could image a fighter like Aaron Pryor at SHW and still carrying his punch output, stamina and ring generalship, then he should in theory, KO Vlad at the same weight in a 8-10 rounds.
     
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    #4
  5. A|C|S

    A|C|S The original |A|C|S| Full Member

    6,223
    5
    Oct 17, 2013
    Skill and Resume

    You got people like Bradley who arent amazingly skilled but have alot of good wins even if some were close

    Then you got people like Rigondeaux his resume isnt so strong but the way he has looked unbeatable leapfrogs him

    This is why Golovkin cant be in it yet because he has to beat an elite fighter first to prove hes elite, if he stops Martinez he goes top 5 for me because he shows he can destroy elite people the same way hes been doing non elites
     
    A|C|S, Mar 24, 2014
    A|C|S, Mar 24, 2014
    #5
  6. LightsOutJack

    LightsOutJack Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,636
    3
    Feb 21, 2014
    1. Who would win if they were all the same size
    2. How dominant they are in their division
    3. How dominant they would be above their division
    4. Who they beat and how
     
    LightsOutJack, Mar 24, 2014
    LightsOutJack, Mar 24, 2014
    #6
  7. YCGS

    YCGS Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,067
    1,271
    Sep 13, 2013
    It's a stupid and useless vehicle whose only purpose is to cause arguments.
     
    YCGS, Mar 24, 2014
    YCGS, Mar 24, 2014
    #7
  8. JASPER

    JASPER Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,214
    8
    Jul 21, 2007
    No, what it means is that a fighters advantages would carry over as if you compare him to the rest of the division. So pryor's punch out put would that much greater than the average HW as it is above the average LWW.
     
    JASPER, Mar 24, 2014
    JASPER, Mar 24, 2014
    #8
  9. SweetSciGuru

    SweetSciGuru Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,132
    5
    Feb 23, 2014
    That's basically it.
    Although, I like extras like how they use the Jab. How well they are at maintaining distance so as to avoid taking punches, and they devever punches, with accuracy/power. :good
     
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    #9
  10. Farmboxer

    Farmboxer VIP Member Full Member

    86,106
    4,096
    Jul 19, 2004
    P4P is subjective, it means nothing. P4P is a bunch of crap!
     
    Farmboxer, Mar 24, 2014
    Farmboxer, Mar 24, 2014
    #10
  11. like a boss

    like a boss Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,519
    8,766
    Jul 30, 2012
    That is the purest definition I've seen so far :good
     
    like a boss, Mar 24, 2014
    like a boss, Mar 24, 2014
    #11
  12. SweetSciGuru

    SweetSciGuru Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,132
    5
    Feb 23, 2014
    Arguments are good.
    They may cause the misguided to modify and correct their flawed position.
     
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    #12
  13. SweetSciGuru

    SweetSciGuru Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,132
    5
    Feb 23, 2014
    It's all relative.

    Piles of crap grow good food for thought :yep
     
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    #13
  14. yingyang

    yingyang Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,783
    0
    Sep 21, 2010
    P4P means nothing nowadays... you've a have fighter avoiding other fighter coz of this and that.
     
    yingyang, Mar 24, 2014
    yingyang, Mar 24, 2014
    #14
  15. SweetSciGuru

    SweetSciGuru Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,132
    5
    Feb 23, 2014
    Do you mean it meant something yesterdays? :huh
     
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    SweetSciGuru, Mar 24, 2014
    #15
Page 1 of 2