Greater fighter,based on history and quality of opponents. Ali or PBF

thanks for clearing that up

but i still dont agree with you

 

Let me clarify that I don't think Floyd fought better fighters than Ali. Not by any means. But some of the arguments that are being used to prove the contrary are a little outlandish and include such accusations as calling Mayweather a cherry picker or that his opposition was crap.. Sure Muhammad fought more men of historical significance and hence the better opposition. But Mayweather's record and career is hardly one of padded substance.

 

ok i agree with you on everything except the opposition and i am not sure if its floyd fault or not but if you look at the biggest names on his resume, they were all either not in their primes or not in floyds weight class.

 

But who WAS in Floyd's weight class? The man started his career at featherweight and ended up at Jr. Middle. How much of an advantage did he really have over guys who inherently started off anywhere from 135 lbs to 154? how old was Floyd when he fought some of his bigger names? How actively had he been fighting at the time? Do his wins over Hatton, Canelo, and Corrales who WERE prime count for nothing?

 

Canelo was moved very carefully before he fought Floyd. And PBF`s big `wins` against Mosley and Oscar really aren't much to brag about. Of course the `catchweight` that Floyd mandated was intentional on Floyd`s part. Floyd has ONE signature victory against a true peep, correct weight and in their prime,Corrales. Please don`t mention PBF in the same sentence as true champs who fought TRUE champs... Duran,Hagler,SRL,Hearns,Ali etc ... Different level of fighting champs...Oh and BTW, H2H, Duran,SRL, Hearns and Hagler ALL beat Floyd at their respective weights, NO catchweights !

 

Who has he beaten that`s either elite or at their true best besides Corrales ? I completely agree with you BESTEVA...

 

Can`t believe we are talking about Guerrero ? And he beat Berto ??

 

If turning pro at age 15, fighting in 43 fights in just under nine years, and capturing two world titles is what you consider " being moved carefully" then I shutter to think of what you view as a perilous route.

I never said a single word about either of those bouts, though I do feel that beating Mosley even at that stage was a decent victory as he was still viewed as a top player in the division.

You ignored my response to your constant ranting about the " catchweight"

No... He has several signature victories against quality opponents who were prime, in good standing, and fighting at weights that should have been comfortable to them given that Floyd himself began his career as a super feather, yet wound up at Jr. Middle.... You're only choosing to dismiss them as being subpar, but that doesn't change the reality of their true value.

So Mayweather wasn't a true champ and neither were ANY of his opponents?

Oh of course.. You don't have a problem matching a former super feather against natural welters and middles without making concessions for him, but do so under the STRICT stipulation that he has no right to neutral ground.. If that isn't selective bias then I don't know what is.

 

Robert Geurrero - A multiple division champion in his prime, never stopped, avenged the only defeat he ever had and didn't just defeat Berto, but utterly beat the living **** out of him... Funny how some of these guys are viewed as good matches for Floyd until he humiliates them... Then the excuses about catch weights, inexperience, being out of prime come flowing out of people's asses like diarhea after chilli fest.

 

Well we can argue all day as to wether or not canelo is in his prime. I personally dont think so yet. even now i think he has another 2-3 more years before he hits his prime. Corrales is floyds best win but lets be honest for a second here. A win over diego corrales doesn't make you an atg. Not saying floyd ins't an atg because he most certainly is but cmon. When i here casuals talk about how hes in the conversation to be the best ever it makes me want to throw up. like i get physically ill when i here some of the bull**** that spews out of peoples mouths. no disrespect to floyd but i have him in the 40-45 range all time p4p which is very good when you consider all the boxers that have fought. But top 10 or even top 20? only a fool would think that. Not saying you do, just kinda venting right now.

Floyd may have been older when he fought some of his bigger name fights but the guys he was fighting were not only old but physically they just weren't the same. The shane mosley and ODLH's from 2000 could have arguably beaten floyd. I mean your trying to tell me that a prime shane mosley wouldn't have been capable of finishing floyd when he rocked him in the second round of their fight? i dont think so. Age isnt everything as some guys get better as they get older ex: B Hop, but the guys that floyd beat, well they were pretty much shot for lack of a better word. I mean if you watch ODLH or SSM or even Cotto at the time compared to when they were in their primes it was like night and day. I think thats part of the reason people get on floyd for ducking

People get upset and angry at floyd because why couldnt he have fought these guys earlier when they were in their primes. I mean theres just seems to be one excuse after another as to why he didn't fight these guys in their primes. TBH and i am a floyd fan but jeez he looked TERRIFIED of Margarito during thay youtube video. Paul Williams is another he could have fought. And dont even get me started on the PacMan Fight. That was the most blantant duck in the history of boxing. comparable only to the days of the great Sam Langford and the Black Murderers Row getting ducked by all the champs at the time.

Floyd's legacy will be picked apart after he is gone because of this and let me tell you what, if him and pac dont ever fight they will BOTH be ridiculed for years to come for not making the fight happen but you know who is most to blame?????

Floyd Mayweather Jr

 

I agree that its ludicrous to have Mayweather listed as the GOAT or anywhere near it.. And it wasn't my argument in the first place.. The man has done more weight jumping than most anyone we can think of and is probably older than most of the top fighters below middleweight, along with an activity level averaging about one appearance per year. Surely with stats like these he can't be rendered as having an advantage over anybody. Weather Canelo improves, implodes or stays the same only time will tell. But what he does or doesn't do in the future shouldn't diminish the quality of the win over a young undefeated multiple belt holder. Hatton was no slouch and also in his prime. Mosley was old but still servicable. Marquez? well we saw what he was still capable of AFTER Floyd beat him. Corrales was a great win.. Genaro hernandez was an experienced verteran super feather champ when Floyd beat him at age 21 and with only 17 fights. The list goes on and on... As for never fighting Pac? I agree he'll get **** for it as Manny will too. But a man's career shouldn't be defined by missing one or two big challenges. Especially if that man spent the better part of his life fighting the top guys of multiple divisions and not just one..At 37 years of age he's still undefeated. I believe he also won a gold metal if im not mistaken.. he's the complete package. Still too shy on number of fights and superstar scalps to be the GOAT... But I don't think any modern fighter will ever accumulate enough bouts to break that barrier.

 

Delete this thread. Trying to compare a top 5 fighter like Ali to a top 46-50 fighter like Floyd is a farce

 

Thank you

 

MM I truly agrre with a lot of your points... But, for me ( and a lot of us) the list ends after Chicanito and Corrales. After that,careful selection, fighters past their primes,green or never were`s took the luster of PBF`s ride in the top. Wanted zero part of Margs and Williams. When his career is done,sadly he will not be able to stand heads up with the true greats from the past. Great fighter, higky skilled,yes ! But,to be mentioned with the Ai`s,Duran`s and SRL`s ? No...He sold out on his legacy for $ and to save the phony O... That's a fact he will face...

 

Excuses ? I love how the PBF fans try to justify who validate fights.
Guerrero,multiple division champ ?? Duran ,Benitez and SRL just vomited with that remark ! Keep justifying PBF fans, but Floyd`s resume is weak and just doesn`t cut it amongst the TRUE fighting champs... PBF would have been hurt,seriously if he fought in the SRL and Hearns era... That O ,so dearly protected would have vanished thisfast...