Greater fighter,based on history and quality of opponents. Ali or PBF

I don't know where most people will rate him in 20-30 years, but I think he'll be better appreciated when he's gone.. Around 1980 several experts were asked to rate their top 10 ATG lightweights and almost none of them had Roberto Duran on their list. Nat Fleischer died having Muhammad Ali at the near bottom of his. If these things don't say something about the way perception changes over time then i don't know what does.

 

I know Guerrero was nothing great.. But common.. If a HEAVYWEIGHT champion took on a guy who's record was 31-1, never stopped, in his prime, was a multiple time belt holder and just creamed the living **** out of another champion in his last fight, we'd be sitting here with hard-ons about Ali or whoever fighting him.. Heavyweights are held to a lower standard than men of lower classes.. They don't typically have as many fights nor face men with that many fights, they rarely jump weight, and their division has traditionally been less talent filled.

 

The only thing i disagree with you on is the man career shouldn't be defined by missing one or two big challenges. Let me ask you something. How would Sugar Ray Leonard be viewed upon in history if he had never fought Tommy Hearns? probably not as great huh?

 

No.. Absolutely not. His resume would take a huge hit.. But Mayweather's legacy was sealed before pac ever came along. Leonard's wasn't.. And both Leonard and Hearns began their careers by making their mark in the same weight class. Pac and Floyd came from other divisions and never stayed in one place for too long of time. You also have to remember that while Leonard has greater "quality" to his resume, Floyd arguably has greater "depth" and certainly a lot more scalps over rated opposition. hence he had room for a few missing names... Leonard did not.

 

eh im not sure about that. its different when you talk about tony and williams because floyd didn't really neeeed to fight them even though he prob should of. PacMan is equal to floyd in being the best fighter of this generation, there in the same weightclass and yet they haven't fought? when has that ever happeend? I would have to go back to the 90's with Bowe and Lennox but that pales in comparision to this

its just different when your talking about the other best fighter of your generation who happens to be fighting in your weight class and yet you won't fight him? Cmon

 

I half agree with what you're saying but its not really that simple. Pac did not even ascend to Welterweight until 2009, at which point Mayweather was toying around with retirement. In fact he sort of did retire for a period after beating Hatton in 2007. Floyd and Pac really only shared the same weight class for a very brief period. And as for Pac being equal to Floyd I have to disagree since he's lost fights including to at least one man whom Floyd beat. Still a legitimate claim for a duck and against a more than worthy opponent though. Incidentally, Dempsey ducked wills, Holmes ducked Page and there are probably others that I can think of.

 

Agree on all accounts, I was only trying to illustrate that Guerrero wasn't a bum, and if a man of his exact description HAD been fighting at heavyweight, virtually no heavyweight champion would have received criticism for fighting him.

 

Hence my point that Ray Leonard's legacy would have taken a hit had he not fought the Hitman. He didn't have the depth to subsidize it. And again, deeming Floyd's entire career as being filled with " over the hills" and "never were's" isn't the reality.. Not all those guys were washed up and not all of them were bums.

 

Floyd's record. I think a lot of his fights are hand picked. When I say hand picked I mean that he selected the fight that would present the least amount of danger based on style. He is fighting guys that have the same style. Hand picked fights in

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. I put his great wins in

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. These are my oppinions and if needed give my reasons.

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2006 Carlos Baldomir

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2004 DeMarcus Corley

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2002 Jose Luis Castillo

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2001 Carlos Hernandez

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2000 Goyo Vargas

1999 Carlos Gerena
1999 ****** Juuko
1999 Carlos Rios

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1998 Tony Pep
1998 Gustavo Cuello
1998 Miguel Melo, Ledyard
1998 Sam Girad
1998 Hector Arroyo


1997 Angelo Nunez
1997 Felipe Garcia
1997 Luis Leija
1997 Jesus Chavez
1997 Larry O'Shields
1997 Tony Duran
1997 Robert Giepert
1997 Kino Rodriguez
1997 Edgar Ayala
1997 Jerry Cooper


1996 Reggie Sanders
1996 Roberto Apodaca

 

Hand picked or not, thats still a pretty good list of scalps. And I think your criticisms of them are a tad selective and one sided. Marquez for example may have been up there in years, but that's only telling half the story. How old did he really look in 2012 when he fought Pac the last time? And as for Saul Alvarez, I've already given my opinion on him earlier in this thread. That fight was a huge win over an undefeated rising talent who some thought had a chance of beating Floyd. I won't get into the rest on the list. Good resume in my eyes.

 

Marquez is one of favorites.

He clipped Pacquaio but, what I do not understand is that it was not like he was or has ever given Pacquaio a beating. He know Pacquaio style and found a moment for a good hard counter. Pacquaio is a aggressive and walked into one. The same thing happened on a lesser degree when Mosley clipped Mayweather.

Floyd has a good resume. Not great. I gave him 8 quality wins over 11 hand picks. If we changed Alvarez to a great win it is 9-10.

Let me ask you about this next fight. Is this a hand picked opponent or someone you think has a real shot?