Greater fighter,based on history and quality of opponents. Ali or PBF

You're right. But Ali had to fight those guys because it was the only way to get his hands on a title as well as to make any money worth while, hence it was a necessary evil. Floyd fights guys in weight classes all over the place. Men who are younger than he is, and in some cases naturals in their own divisions. I won't argue that he fought better people and yes its already been well illustrated that there were/are some guys he didn't or isn't fighting. Its actually kind of silly that we're even comparing the two.. they are completely different fighters who's resumes have entirely different strengths.

 

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to my research were fighter that we ranked in the top ten during when Ali fought them. Ali's resume not only crushes Floyd's but it is one of the best in boxing history right up there with Greb, Charles, Robinson, R. Leonard, and Armstrong. there was a question of what was Ali doing at 37 compared to what Floyd is doing at that age. Ali was doing was fighting Larry Holmes way past any thought of his prime meanwhile we Floyd went against every boxing fan in history by ducking/accussing Pacquaio and fight hand picked fighters. Comparing Floyd's career to Ali's should make us visibly sick. He talks but does not sign the paper. Ali talked, signed the paper and beat the heck out of his opponent.


1960
29 Oct -- Tunney Hunsaker, Louisville, KY -- W 6
27 Dec -- Herb Siler, Miami Beach, FL -- KO 4


1961
17 Jan -- Tony Esperti, Miami Beach, FL -- KO 3
6 Feb -- Ingemar Johansson, Miami Beach, FL -- Spar 2
7 Feb -- Jim Robinson, Miami Beach, FL -- KO 1
21 Feb -- Donnie Fleeman, Miami Beach, FL -- KO 7
19 Apr -- Lamar Clark, Louisville, KY -- KO 2
26 Jun -- Duke Sabedong, Las Vegas, NV -- W 10
22 Jul -- Alonzo Johnson, Louisville, KY -- W 10
7 Oct -- Alex Miteff, Louisville, KY -- KO 6
29 Nov -- Willi Besmanoff, Louisville, KY -- KO 7


1962
19 Feb -- Sonny Banks, New York, NY -- KO 4
28 Mar -- Don Warner, Miami Beach, FL -- KO 4
23 Apr -- George Logan, Los Angeles, CA -- KO 6
19 May -- Billy Daniels, New York, NY -- KO 7
20 Jul -- Alejandro Lavorante, Los Angeles, CA -- KO 5
15 Nov -- Archie Moore, Los Angeles, CA -- KO 4


1963
24 Jan -- Charlie Powell, Pittsburgh, PA -- KO 3

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1964

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1965

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31 Jul -- Jimmy Ellis, San Juan, PR -- Exh. 3
31 Jul -- Cody Jones, San Juan, PR -- Exh. 3
16 Aug -- Cody Jones, Goteborg, Sweden -- Exh. 2
16 Aug -- Jimmy Ellis, Goteborg, Sweden -- Exh. 2
20 Aug -- Jimmy Ellis, London -- Exh. 4
20 Aug -- Cody Jones, Paisley, Scotland -- Exh. 4
22 Nov -- Floyd Patterson, Las Vegas, NV -- KO 12
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)


1966

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6 Aug -- Brian London, London -- KO 3
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)

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1967

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15 Jun -- Alvin Lewis, Detroit, MI -- Exh. 3
15 Jun -- Orvill Qualls, Detroit, MI -- Exh. 3


1970
20 Jan -- Rocky Marciano (movie/computer fight) -- TKO by 8
?? Sep -- Rufus Braswell -- Exh. 2
?? Sep -- Johnny Hudgins -- Exh. 2
?? Sep -- George Hill -- Exh. 4

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1971

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25 Jun -- J.D. McCauley, Dayton, OH -- Exh. 2
25 Jun -- Eddie Brooks, Dayton, OH -- Exh. 3
25 Jun -- Rufus Brassell, Dayton, OH -- Exh. 3
30 Jun -- Alex Mack, Charleston, SC -- Exh. 3
30 Jun -- Eddie Brooks, Charleston, SC -- Exh. 4

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21 Aug -- Lancer Johnson, Caracas -- Exh. 4
21 Aug -- Eddie Brooks, Caracas -- Exh. 4
23 Aug -- Lancer Johnson, Port of Spain, Trinidad -- Exh. 4
23 Aug -- Eddie Brooks, Port of Spain, Trinidad -- Exh. 2
6 Nov -- James Summerville, Buenos Aires -- Exh. 5
6 Nov -- Miguel Paez, Buenos Aires -- Exh. 5
17 Nov -- Buster Mathis, Houston, TX -- W 12
26 Dec -- Jurgen Blin, Zurich, Switzerland -- KO 7


1972
1 Apr -- Mac Foster, Tokyo -- W 15

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29 Jun -- Jerry Quarry, Las Vegas, NV -- KO 7
1 Jul -- Lonnie Bennett, Los Angeles, CA -- Exh. 2
1 Jul -- Eddie Jones, Los Angeles, CA -- Exh. 2
1 Jul -- Billy Ryan, Los Angeles, CA -- Exh. 2
1 Jul -- Charley James, Los Angeles, CA -- Exh. 2
1 Jul -- Rudy Clay, Los Angeles, CA -- Exh. 2
19 Jul -- Al Lewis, Dublin -- KO 11
1 Aug -- Gregorio Peralta, Barcelona, Spain -- Exh. 8
24 Aug -- Obie English, Baltimore, MD -- Exh. 4
24 Aug -- Ray Anderson, Baltimore, MD -- Exh. 2
24 Aug -- Alonzo Johnson, Baltimore, MD -- Exh. 2
24 Aug -- George Hill, Baltimore, MD -- Exh. 2
28 Aug -- Alonzo Johnson, Cleveland, OH -- Exh. 2
28 Aug -- Amos Johnson, Cleveland, OH -- Exh. 2
28 Aug -- Terry Daniels, Cleveland, OH -- Exh. 2
28 Aug -- Rodney Greene, Cleveland, OH -- Exh. 1
28 Aug -- Gary Dee, Cleveland, OH -- Exh. 1
20 Sep -- Floyd Patterson, New York, NY -- KO 7
11 Oct -- John Dennis, Boston, MA -- Exh. 2
11 Oct -- Cliff McDonald, Boston, MA -- Exh. 2
11 Oct -- Doug Kirk, Boston, MA -- Exh. 2
11 Oct -- Ray Anderson, Boston, MA -- Exh. 2
11 Oct -- Paul Raymond, Boston, MA -- Exh. 2
18 Nov -- Al Jones, Johannesburg, S.A. -- Exh. ?
21 Nov -- Bob Foster, Stateline, NV -- KO 8
28 Nov -- Charlie Boston, Salem, Va -- Exh. 2
28 Nov -- Jimmy Wingfield, Salem, Va -- Exh. 2
28 Nov -- John Jordan, Salem, Va -- Exh. 2
28 Nov -- Alonzo Johnson, Salem, Va -- Exh. 2


1973

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23 Feb -- Cookie Wallace, Dallas -- Exh. 4

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20 Oct -- Rudi Lubbers, Jakarta -- W 12


1974

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1975
24 Mar -- Chuck Wepner, Cleveland, OH -- KO 15
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)

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6 Dec -- Randy Stephens, Dallas, TX -- Exh. 3


1976
20 Feb -- Jean Pierre Coopman, San Juan, PR -- KO 5
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)

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24 May -- Richard Dunn, Munich, Germany -- KO 5
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)
25 Jun -- Antonio Inoki, Tokyo -- Exh. D 15

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1977
29 Jan -- Peter Fuller, Boston, MA -- Exh. 4
29 Jan -- Walter Haines, Boston, MA -- Exh. 1
29 Jan -- Jerry Houston, Boston, MA -- Exh. 2
29 Jan -- Ron Drinkwater, Boston, MA -- Exh. 2
29 Jan -- Matt Ross, Boston, MA -- Exh. 2
29 Jan -- Frank Smith, Boston, MA -- Exh. 1
16 May -- Alfredo Evangelista, Landover, MD -- W 15
(Retained World Heavyweight Title)

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14 Nov -- Bernardo Mercado, Bogata, Colombia -- Exh. 5
2 Dec -- Scott LeDoux, Chicago, IL -- Exh. 5


1978
15 Feb -- Leon Spinks, Las Vegas, NV -- L 15
(Lost World Heavyweight Title)
15 Aug -- Leon Spinks, New Orleans, LA -- W 15
(Won World Heavyweight Title)


1979
27 May -- Alonzo Johnson, Randers, Den -- Exh. 5
27 May -- Jimmy Willis, Randers, Den -- Exh. 5
14 Jul -- Lyle Alzado, Denver, CO -- Exh. 8


1980

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1981

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This is a bull**** claim and one that's so transparent It shouldn't even need be called out. Floyd ascended in weight to fight an undefeated two belt holder with more than a decade of youth on him and that a fair number of people thought could beat him. He not only won, but made him look amateurish.. Ali was RETIRED at age 37 and only came out to get his ass kicked for one last pay check. Yeah I know what you're going to say which you've repeated over and over " a unified champion with 43 pro fights and 6 title defenses was too green for mayweather." Well if that's your true position on the issue than you must either think very highly of Floyd or think rather poorly of Ali's opposition, because neither George Foreman or Joe Frazier were anymore seasoned than Alvarez. To clarify, I've already stated that Muhammad Ali's opposition was better and hence so is his legacy. But the arguments that have been used against Mayweather are drivel.

 

Thanks Waynegrade.

I am student and there is so much I do not know about boxing that if I get into a conversation with knowledgeable posters like you, Mr. Magoo, and other it forces me to take some time to learn about the sport. Otherwise, I am just responding out of a desire to win an arguement when I really have no idea what I am talking about.

 

That was precisely the situation. The poor soul had to come out of retirement to feed his army of hangers on. And even then King ripped him off.

 

Ali fought Larry Holmes and got beat up. Not some bum no one ever heard from again. That shows me that Ali had the heart to fight anyone anytime even at age that he should have known better. This would be like Mayweather fighting a prime Duran at his age now. He won't even fight a old Pacquaio.

Now lets deal with Alvarez vs. Frazier and Foreman. in 1966 Frazier was ranked 6 by The Ring. From then until he beat Muhammad Ali in 1971 he beat highly ranked opponents Bonavena X2, Chuvalo, Quarry, Ellis, Bob Foster(LHW Champion) including other strong fighters including Buster Mathis. Foreman stopped Chuvalo in 3 rounds. Stopped Chuvalo in 3. Then moved on to stop Frazier in 2....If this is not seasoning I do not know what is. A arguement could made against Foreman but, it kinda cannot when you look at him stopping Frazier who was one an all-time great run.

OK, lets look at Alvarez. I just checked out his record and I see Mosley (too old), Cintron (not even sure why he was still fighting), Baldimir (same thought as Cintron), and Trout. OK, sure it is good for an up and comer but going in with Mayweather he looks green to me. The way he fought Mayweather, he looked green. No adjustments just getting outboxed in a boring decision loss.

Here is what I see. Floyd looked at this guy, saw that the paying public was buying the hype, and cashed in before someone else exposed him. Cherry-picked. All of his 46 fights and lame title defenses I guess that means he is a serious champion. Not really. He is a belt holder which is no big deal to me.

Thoughts?

 

Nice try at making Ali's fighting Holmes' as being some heroic act. But the reality is that he came out of retirement for the money and against an opponent that he knew wasn't going to beat. Floyd doesn't exactly have his back against the wall to fight Pacquiao who's people btw are just as responsible for that fight not happening as Floyd's. Incidentally just as a reminder I'm not claiming that Floyd's resume is better than Ali's. Only that your opinion of him having entire career cherry picked on the basis of not fighting one man is preposterous and how you keep comparing it to Ali's as a means for verifying this claim.

Lot of selective bias here. You're picking apart Alvarez's opposition as being too green, too old, whatever, but ignoring that Chuvalo was past it when he fought Foreman, and quite possibly the ONLY noteworthy name that George beat before challenging Frazier. The Frazier fight was tayler made for George ( the very same criticism you made about Alvarez vs Floyd ) and didn't last long enough for Foreman to gain any real experience.. Bob Foster was a light heavyweight when Joe Fought him, as was Ellis who also was off for 17 months. See how some of this stuff is easily turned around?

 

-No. I never used the word " overrated." Scroll back through the conversations to see the origin of my comment.

-Yes, I am very well versed with Ali's career, and for about the TENTH time, I am not saying Mayweathers resume ads up to his.

-No.. He wasn't

 

Ali, "The Greatest" stood in there and took his beating round after round. Took it like a man when he should have been retired after the Manila fight. Money or not, he fought the best from the begin to end.

Past it or not Chuvalo was KO'ed in 3 rounds. His chin is made of steel. George did the same to Frazier. Frazier was the Heavyweight Champion of the World and Foreman put him out in 2. That is not tailor-made selective cherry-picking. That is destroying two undestroyables on of them a Ali conquerer.

I think if you stop for a sec you will realize that you are making an argument for Floyd opposition over Ali's because we put the questions to Floyd. His opponents have been hand picked. Why not accept that. It is almost common-knowledge to even non-boxing fans. Money-Mayweather will not fight the best and really has a track record of not. I gave you his history in each division he has fought in in his prime. There are so many guys he left untouched. Guys I think he beats. Also when he did get to some of them, they were past their best.

I did say that there might be an arguement against Foreman but, he KO'ed Frazier in two. Did anyone have Foreman KO'ing Frazier in two? I seriously, seriously doubt it.

 

He wasn't doing in old age what Floyd is doing now which is still being regarded by most as p4p #1 in the world.

So you're chalking up Alvarez's opponents as being past it but not Foreman's. Double standard.

Most people regard Frazier as slipping when Foreman fought him

No.. I have stated repeatedly that Ali fought better opposition and that my only argument is against your claim that Mayweather's career was cherry picked which is incorrect. But you seem to keep bringing up Ali, and I think I know why. Perhaps you feel that the only way to validate your claim is try and turn this into a debate about weather or not Floyd's resume was as good Ali's.

The guys has plenty of quality opponents, world titles, and good wins on that resume. He's not a cherry picker.

 

At 36, Muhammad Ali won the Heavyweight title for an unpresidented third time after losing it. Then came back 2 years later to fight the best for the Heavyweight title. Really, this is not even close.

I did not give a double standard about Foreman. For third time, I said that their could be an arguement against Foreman but, I maintain my position against that arguement because he destroyed men who were certified indestructible.

I was not there in the 70's but, honestly, I cannot see how people would see Frazier as slipping when he was two fights removed from banging Ali's head in and then KO'ing his next two fighters in 4 and 5 rounds respectively. Looks like to me that he was a champion taking care of B.I.

The title of this thread is called

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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-poll-on-who-floyd-mayweather-will-fight-next

Standing by. Thanks.

 

He LOST the heavyweight title to a man with 7 pro fights and a draw to scott Ledoux, then came out of retirement and got his ass kicked badly. Does this really surmount to being the best p4p fighter in the world at age 37 and beating Saul Alvarez? Would you think you were being honest if you said that it did?

In the midst of this argument you've lost its origin. The way this all started is when I said " if you think Alvarez was green when Floyd Fought him, then Foreman must have been in diapers." No way was Foreman more seasoned than Alvarez when he fought Ali, despite his wins over Norton, Frazier and Chuvalo, especially given that those fights never got off the ground for any real experience to be gained.

I wasn't there either, but given his weight gain, performance against his last two opponents and poor devotion to training for his fight with Foreman, I agree with the crowd who claims this, though I'd still pick George to beat him at his best.

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