the jones jr debate.

Tarver was a good fighter.

But Roy was always going to be beaten one day.

I don't think Tarver would have beaten him earlier.

 

Ok.

 

He ducked a fight with Michael Nunn in 98'


Even shot Michael Nunn, would've had a great shot at sleeping him.

 

Of course, but you get the point.

A rematch would have been nice. But it wasn't needed. Just like a Toney one. Roy had nothing to prove.

 

Did he really duck him though, out a fear of been beaten? He relinquished the belt and then enquired about the possibility of fighting Holyfield. We've seen links on here, stating that Holyfield at the time, said that he had no interest in fighting 5'10 LHW's. I've also seen a link from 1999, where he said he wasn't interested. According to Murad Muhammad (Roy's promoter back then) he'd got a $7m fight lined up against Buster Douglas, before Roy Snr pulled the plug at the last minute. I've always agreed that Roy should have fought Nunn, before doing anything else. But I have a hard time believing that Roy at 28, actually feared him and ducked him.

 

Great post

 

Great but seriously overrated. He was also clearly on steroids throughout his prime years.

 

Tarver wouldn't have done that to Roy when he was at the peak of his powers.

Let's remember Roy had pumped up to get up to HW, when he had to drop back down to face Tarver he had to strip muscle and it zapped him.

 

-He had already enquired about the Holyfield fight BEFORE he was ordered to fight Nunn, by the WBC.

-He made a offer to Nunn which was rejected

-He bid again after the fight went to purse bids and he lost, with the Goossens winning with a bid for 2.4m

-Team Jones openly complained about the purse, he was going to get 1.8m. So Jones cut a deal with HBO so they could buy the fight off the Goossens.
Levin would state that Jones did not want to vacate the belt.
The Goossens would reject Jones offer so he would vacate the belt stating that Nunn did not deserve to make that much money.

-Nunn would become his mando again after beating Guthrie(99) and Jones would ignore him.before having him pushed into a elimination bout with Woods.

Holyfield said that BEFORE Jones was ordered to fight Nunn late 97

The Douglas fight did not come about until around 4 months AFTER he had vacated the lhw belt.

He would of lost to Nunn back in 95 when the fight was first offered to him, which is why he flat out refused to take it.

Note:
Look at the way you are skipping over facts and moving time frames around.

 

?????
Benn in that very same interview would then say he would love to fight Jones as well.

 

1: Jones at the peak of his powers struggled with Harding
2: Jones had recovered from the weight loss by Tarver II.

 

general zod,

Yes, you're right, he made inquiries to fight at HW before the Griffin rematch. My mistake. But that just strengthens the argument that he didn't duck Nunn out of a fear of losing to him. We've discussed this many times, and I've always agreed that he should have tried to have fought him at that point. But I'm just asking the question - did he duck him? looking at things logically. People are quick to jump in and say 'He gave up the belt because he was scared of Nunn' but again, let's look at things logically. Did he pretend to be interested in HW's to avoid Nunn? I don't think so. Nunn was a great fighter, but he was past his best, as you yourself have alluded to. After the Nunn fight didn't get made, Roy had the Douglas fight lined up for a lot more money.

Now if you think Roy feared Nunn in 97 when he was 28, that's cool. Again, many people share your opinion. But if that was true, why did he make an offer to fight Frankie Liles? Why did he fight Harding? Why did he fight Tarver three times? Why did he fight Calzaghe? It doesn't make sense. Nunn at his best was arguably better than those guys, but in 97, I don't see how it brought a bigger challenge than some of those guys did when Roy was older. Roy was nearly 35 when he fought Tarver after dropping back from HW. He'd also had 50 fights, and Tarver was extremely motivated. So Tarver at that stage of Roy's career must have been either equal to, or more of a challenge than Nunn was in 97. Don't you agree? It's the same with Joe Calzaghe. Now you know how I feel about Joe, but he was a very good fighter. Roy fought him 9 weeks from his 40th birthday, when he was a shell of his former self. So the question is, if Roy had done all he could to avoid a past his best Nunn at 28, what the hell was he doing fighting Joe at almost 40? It's not logical in my opinion, that Roy feared losing to Nunn. Liles would have been a highly dangerous fight for Roy. So again, why would he have avoided Nunn, yet was willing to fight Liles?

With regards to Nunn becoming a mandatory again after Guthrie, do you mean Guthrie, or Thomas? Nunn fought Guthrie in 99. Just after Nunn had beaten Guthrie, Roy unified the LHW division by beating Reggie Johnson for the IBF. He then fought Telesco who HBO wanted him to fight, before fighting Hall who was a mandatory for the WBA. In the previous year of 98, Roy beat Del Valle for the WBA, then he fought Grant, before fighting Frazier who was a mandatory early in 99. You're overlooking the fact that Roy represented three organisations. He always had a mandatory lined up for one of his belts. He also asked for Tarver and Harding to be put into an eliminator, on the condition that he fought the winner.

Again, that's fair enough. But would a guy who feared Nunn, have been willing to fight Evander Holyfield?

That's right. But like you've mentioned, we know he was looking at fighting a HW before Nunn was mandatory.

1. You don't know that.

2. Again, why then did he make an offer to fight Liles in 96, when Liles was a huge southpaw that would have brought a huge challenge and he'd beaten Nunn himself?

We know that you can't always use triangle theories, but it wouldn't have made sense to have ducked Nunn to then make an offer to Liles the following year.

I haven't intentionally moved any time frames around.

 

general zod,

I think when Roy was at his absolute peak, he was fighting at SMW in his mid 20's.

If Roy could beat Tarver at nearly 35, after having had 50 fights and burning muscle, there's nothing to suggest that he couldn't also have beaten him earlier on in his career.

 

Jones was THE best boxer we will ever see. In the past 30 years, we've had amazing talent. Jones is at the top of the list with Sugar Ray, Hearns, Trinidad, De La Hoya, Whitaker, Duran, Tyson following.

 

There were 2 types of Prime Jones. Prime, not wanting to hurt people Jones, and Prime MOTIVATED Jones. Huge difference in approaches. When Jones Saw what happened to Gerald Mclellan, i think he visited him, it changed his mind set and really didn't want to hurt anyone.

But PRIME, MOTIVATED Jones, doesn't struggle with anyone