Floyd Mayweather vs Ray Leonard...

I'll address this even though a few of the points I've raised haven't been addressed by yourself but have been addressed with insults and nothing productive from your mate Foxy.
Duran clearly had his most successful days as a lightweight, a division that some might even say he was the best ever at, top 5 at the very least. Towards the end of that reign he was starting to have weight problems. Quite naturally like most fighters as you get older the weight becomes harder to shift. At this point he was having regular over the weight matches which makes life easier in the short run but even harder when it comes to getting back down to the the Championship weight. I suppose at some point, probably the right point it was time to listen to his body and make the move up skipping the lightwelterweight division. I think if he had carried on trying to do lightweight his body would of likely given up and he'd of lost the title to a lesser man and his career would of been shortened.
Anyway here is he now a welterweight, he's still in his prime, undamaged by sticking around at lightweight too long, keeping busy and fighting some useful opponents. It's not like like he was fighting elite fighters every time out as a lightweight. I thought he looked outstanding in the Palomino fight and I'd say the Leonard fight even though you don't rate Ray was probably his best ever performance. People say Ray fought the wrong fight, maybe Roberto just fought the right fight. Maybe Ray just didn't have the experience to deal with a fighter of Duran's quality or experience that night. You'll like this, Leonard was even quoted as saying that it was Roberto's speed that caught him out. As for the return, what can you say, it's another topic. In my humble opinion he had a bad night, unfocused and unprepared and probably struggling at the weight. I think he still had the ability but the Leonard fight had catapulted him into a whole new stratosphere and he didn't deal with it.
So there you go, very successful lightweight career but as I see it he was just as good in those first couple of years at welter at that age and with all that experience as he was as a lightweight.
Post Benitez well it was up and down, flashes of brilliance along with bad discipline, fighting the scales and inconsistency. It's just testament to his brilliance that he could compete with some of those young guns when past his best fighting weight (lightweight/welterweight) on know-how, experience and pure talent when he put his mind to it.
I think Leonard was an outstanding welterweight and it took another outstanding welterweight to beat him in on that night in 1980. Not the other way round ie he wasn't good because he was beaten by a blown up lightweight.
Your hatred of Leonard, I don't know where it stems from I'm guessing some of the shenanigans he pulled after his welterweight days and then having the temerity to beat Marvin Hagler for the middlweight title might have something to do with it going by previous debates we've been in. I'll be the first to admit that his career became a bit of a circus but as a welterweight he was pretty good IMO and I think he would find a way to beat Floyd who highly as I rate h just hasn't proved himself at welterweight. If he'd at least took on Manny i might think differently. It's a shame really because I think Floyd has looked at his best when he's had his toughest fights, Judah and DeCorley for example, southpaws as it happens who've asked questions of him.
One thing about Ray is that he did fight the best welterweights of his time.

 

fair enough.

u guessed right. it was in fact, shenanigans he pulled after his welterweight days along with his unprofessional conduct inside the ring that turned me off. at first I could tolerate his antics but as good a fighter as he was, he seemed to get way too many breaks, and then calling out Hagler after years of turning down the same fighter stuck me as undignified. the Lalonde fight was the last straw. I then knew for sure that this man was a fraud masquerading as the real thing

In my musings, I foresaw far into the future and augered the coming of another power, a fast, uprising prospect (black of course) who would in fact completely tear down Leonard's public image of infallibility and reveal his limitations in a big way

 

Practice makes perfect. Where would this place be without such a consistent hard working practitioner?

When i came in for look i was wondering if you would still be here. I should have had more faith :good

Golf can be a bit of love hate LOL! Very hard game to get on top of.

 

golf yes, golf. Cant say I've ever tried it. Nevertheless, I am familiar with the ambition of trying to excel in certain things but falling short and then the dissapointment sets in

I occasionally take time off but periodically check in.

I am glad to hear you're doing well. Remember back when you & I used to take turns getting on each other's nerves? Those were the days

 

Duran's best weight was at Lightweight where I rate him top 4 all time. He was also a great welterweight the night he beat Leonard in Montreal.
Duran had had 10 fights at weights between welter and light middle when he challenged Leonard for the welterweight crown.Only one man beat him at welterweight.
Leonard.

 

We had some good debates that was for sure hahaha.

 

It makes no difference, people can sit wriggling, and squirming in denial like O.J.Simpson if they like. Fact is Duran was considered a career Lightweight at the time he defeated Leonard, and his record PROVES it.

And at 5' 7" with a 66" reach he wasn't even a BIG Lightweight. It was his out of ring lifestyle that caused him weight making problems. Which in itself is ironic when people **** and moan about Hatton slurping Guinness, and eating kebabs. Duran would go partying for months after fights, never mind a fortnight in Tenerife.

 

And this has to do with the Leonard/ Mayweather match up precisely what?

 

so after 6 fights at 147 (having jumped two divisions) he beat Leonard. but how does Leonard become great after one defense?

No, i'm sorry but it makes no sense, and in the rematch, Duran was far less than he was in Montreal becuz of the 40 + pounds he recently shed.

Sorry to tell u this but the best accomplishment of Leonard is to say he mocked a guy into submission who had 7 bouts as a welter and dropped 40 pounds. this actually impresses some people

but it shouldnt

I thought it was funny how u tried to stretch out Duran's experience "Duran had had 10 fights at weights between welter and light middle when he challenged Leonard for the welterweight crown" and then try flooring us with the claim "Only one man beat him - Leonard"


Duran was light years better in the 1970s as a welterweight with no weight issues

it seems that no matter how hard Ray Leonard tries to impress, something always takes the luster off of his wins

 

yes, absolutely Duran matured as a lightweight, his proper weight, and jumping two divisions and for anyone to actually BOAST that Ray Leonard beat him into submission by way of taunts when he couldnt do otherwise with his fists, is pathetic

so I wanted to put things into their proper perspective by pointing this out but if one is an adoring fan of Ray Leonard, it gets them peeved

remember, I was once a Ray Leonard fan until I saw that he wasnt really all that

 

We can draw up many instances of an aging fighter getting trounced by a considerably younger, fresher, quicker fighter - can't really do the same with regards to fighters universally recognised as not only the best in their division, but the best in the entire sport losing to fighters coming off of such an extended period of inactivity.


And Hagler was robbed now, was he? What happened to Leonard's eleven year unbeaten going into the Norris fight? F*cking ****** isn't capable of maintaining any consistency.

The Hearns fight demonstrated nothing but Hagler's ability to impose himself upon a foolish, tactically naive fighter that was operating above his best weight(s) and who'd shot his entire load within a single round.


It's also worth noting that Iran Barkley achieved the same feat, at the same weight, in the same exact round, as Hagler did. Obviously being a "bigger, better, faster and much improved" fighter obviously didn't count for much there, did it, Elton? :hi:

 

It as as much to do with Leonard / Mayweather as idiots who claim Leonard DESERVES ATG status for having " stoppage " wins over Benitez, Hearns, and Duran ALONE.

Fact. LOST to Duran when it mattered, because that was the end of his adored 0. A guy who moved up from Lightweight.

The rest means nothing.

 

that's true. we just cant find any this lopsided when u have a huge a favorite as leonard was (notice how u failed to give comparisons as an example)

the results of that fight show something very important; that leonard was very overrated and I had always said that. but now the world could actually see it

becuz even as Leonard thorougly outboxed N outsped Duran in uno mas, Leonard himself was dealt far worse by the speed N youth of Norris, s Terry painted Ray up N donw like a master artiste not unlike that of a Monet, a Davinchi, a MichealAngelo

we'll have to blame it on Ray becuz of all the repeats he had had along with the stiffs & crippled relics near extinction (Hagler, Duran, Hearns) on his senior's tour which he was all too happy to risk his eye for

and so while Ray does a few big names on his resume (four to Camacho's nine), it just seems that no matter how much he tries to impress, it never seems to be enough

take Hearns for example, his best opponent who easily outboxed him and Benitez, and KO'd Duran N Cuevas, For Hagler it was an easy fight, took 3 rounds which means Leonard's opposition was inferior to Hagler's

that's why we have so many myths at ESB, the latest that Wilfred Benitez was washed up at 25 becuz all the wars. after 35 years, Leonard Benitez suddenly becomes a war?

One guy here even said Ray STOPPED Wilfred, (along with Duran)... but cant say how it was done

maybe he figured it had the appearance of a war from the blood trickling down Wilfred's forehead that came from a butt

well whatever, but the thing that is hardest for them to accept is that Hagler's opposition was better than Sugar's and cant accept that at face value Hamsho's obvious superiority to Wilfred on film, so they tray raionalizing it with fabrications

sounds like sour grapes to me over a great win. a win over a bigger, stronger, faster, more experienced & more sophisticated Hearns which put Marvin OVER both Hearns N Leonard

My guess is that u were quite upset that the ringside physician hadnt stopped the fight due to a cut becuz then a loss wouldve placed hagler UNDER Hearns N Leonard

unfortunately for Leonard fans, it took Marvin only seconds more instead of rounds to decide the outcome

as for Barkley, Tommy had been showing his slip in recent fights, a fraigility never before seen starting two fights earlier so the result didnt really shock me :bbb

 

good call. his fans are that hard up becuz they know his resume is thin and need to add that little extra for embellishment in order that his reusme stands out more. I know, I was once one of his fans so I know the mentality

now, I am much more of a Duran fan, a Hagler fan

Oh, the "stoppages"? Those are bogus as are the draw vs Hearns, & the points win over Hagler. His record should read 35-5 but even at 36-3-1 looks somewhat mediocre. at the very best we'd have to say a record of 36-3-1 doesnt exactly stand out

PS: Duran was a lightweight