The weakest title challengers of HW champions

Well to be fair, a win (if you can call it that, because obviously it wasnt) over Hart is a win over the last man to defeat Jack Johnson. Ross also had just beaten Shrek as well, who had just beaten Hart also.

ON the comparison with Kaufman, they just fought a ND, and it seems (unless i am mistaken) that Ross actually got the better of Kaufman. This article seems to indicate that JOhnson didnt think much of Kaufman.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/120635961?searchTerm=ross kaufman&searchLimits=

Jim Johnson was fighting at the time that Ross got his title shot with Johnson. But, according to CBZ, there are no records of any of those title fights. Interestingly, Ross and Johnson did fight soon after the Johnson Ross fight adn it ended in a 6rnd ND. Does anyone have any reports on how this went.

O Brien had already had his chance with Johnson, and not managed to beat an out of shape johnson. He was also outclassed by Tommy Burns, who jack thrashed and would be kod by Johnson victim Ketchell. I dont see how he could realistically be seen as a credible opponent for Johnson.

Interestingly, it shouldnt be forgotten that Johnson had already fought and beat the likes of Langford, McVey, Jeanette, Martin etc recently, so arguably they were not credible challengers.

This is an interesting little article. It claims that when Johnson relinquished the championship in 1912 (I think this often forgotten fact puts a different perspective on JOhnson's title reign), Al Palzer claimed the crown, but the problem is that he was soundly beaten by none other than Tony Ross! Maybe Ross wasnt as bad a challenger as he is being credited?

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/122769904?searchTerm=ross jim johnson tony&searchLimits=

 

The question was the weakest title challenger, in this case to Johnson. Hart was shot,Kaufman hammered Ross and would do it again, so did Flynn. Schreck's series with Ross was finely balanced and while O'Brien was slipping by the time he got Johnson, he was in a different class to Ross, I believe. The Jim Johnson is reported as a draw. I think we should remember that the likes of Morris Harris was licking Ross.

 

I dont understand. Did Kaufman hammer Ross? I thought the report i posted said Ross beat Kaufman. IS this wrong or are you talking about there other bout. Which even if you are, would only make things 1 all, wouldnt it?

Also, i would have thought that if we are talking about JOhnson's weakest title defence, then Victor Mclaglen (who i actually think might have been a little better than what he is given credit for) might trump both of them.

 

If you count McLaglen then you are correct unless of course we count Jack Murray?
In the first Kaufman-Ross affair Al won pretty near every round in a round by round report that I read. He also won the second fight handily.

 

It would be a rash man who aserted that he was, but it might just be arguable in some cases.

I think that McLaglan should be in the argument, because I think the title was technicaly on the line.

 

"AL KAUFMAN WINS, BUT JOHNSON LAUGHS

Champion Not Impressed With Californian's Defeat of - Tony Ross

NEW YORK. April 13. — Al Kaufman of San Francisco, who aspires to heavy weight championship fistic honors, met and defeated on points Toni Ross of Newcastle in a ten round light tonight.

Jack Johnson, the world's champion heavy weight pugilist, was at the ringside and laughed at the efforts of the men, apparently feeling satisfied that no danger threatened his title from this most earnest seeker for a champion-

Kaufman, according to experts at the ringside, did not show that he is in the cl&es of the big negro.

Jim Cof froth of Colma, Cal., was a spectator. He had nothing to say about the outcome of the bout, but he said that while he had no signatures to the contract, he was sure he would secure a match between Johnson and Kotchel to take place some time after the first of October.

No time was lost in getting the men together, and Kaufman showed quickly by left jabs and a handy right that he had taken Ross' measure. Kaufman was cool and deliberate, almost measuring . his blows, but the only telling blow Ross sent back was a right swing on the side of the head. The first round was easily Kaufman's.

In the second round Kaufman rushed, but was stopped by three lefts which drew blood from the nose. Ross butted toward the end of the round, but Kaufman was master of the round by a small margin. The third round found Ross willing and forcing the issue. He sent two rights to the head, getting- bad blows in return and a hard left to the face, which made. the blood spout again from his nose. Kaufman was by far the better general in this round.

Lefts and rights to the face were the blows with which Kaufman opened the fourth, Ross plugging for the wind, but he took many a blow on his face, one of which split his lip. There was no question of the Italian's gameness, but he was outpointed. At close quarters in the first round Kaufman had the better of many exchanges, but Ross, rushing with left and right to the head, forced the Californian twice to the ropes.

Kaufman missed several blows in the sixth, but in every clinch he was the better punisher. In the seventh Kaufman led his left twice to the face, opening a gash over Ross' eye. Kaufman sent left, 'right and left in quick succession to Ross' face in the eighth round, but he allowed the Italian too much time to recuperate.

In the ninth round Kaufman' depended on left jabs to the face, and then sent Ross to the floor for eight seconds with a left hook to the jaw. Ross came up weakly and soon j was staggered by a succession of right and left smashes in the stomach.

Ross hugged at the beginning of the tenth, taking. many a punch before he got in a left smash on the face. Kaufman seemingly was unable to measure his blows and was wild in his attempted blows for a knockout, but was the stronger by far at the finish, winning easily on points"

 

The choice of Pete Rademacher against Patterson is pretty ridiculous. He may have been a Olympic gold medalist in the amateurs but had never proved himself as anything professionally.

Nothing more than a publicity stunt.

 

He was undefeated and had been regarded as top 10 (mostly based on potential) for years. This is about about the worst challengers, not the best. A win over that guy prior to challenging for the title is not the stuff of the worst hw title challenger in history.

 

Pete Rademacher was undeserving, no doubt about that, but he went on to beat Chuvalo and Besmanoff among others. These two would, i would have thought been favourites against Leapai. I think Rademacher would be quietly confident of his chances against Leapai and while obviously his record (he didnt have one) wasnt as good as Leapai's, i think he was a better challenger. I think Ross was quite a bit better than Leapai. McLachlan, i am not so sure, they should be mentioned in the same breath.

 

Lepai won an eliminator; Rademacher hadn't won ****.

 

He did perform better against Floyd than Leapai did against Wlad, it should be noted. Even scored a knockdown. Leapai barely landed a scoring blow...or threw one that had any real chance of scoring. Undeserving and weakness of challenge are concepts that aren't entirely interchangeable.

 

-And yet Leapai lasted longer than Austin and Mormek, and its not like Wlad wasn't trying to knock him out, he was opening up with early right hands like we haven't seen him in some time.

 

Well he had won a Gold medal. I am not so sure that Leapai could do the same. In fact, i do not really think that he would beat Anthony Joshua, if they fought tomorrow. I certainly doubt that he would win a gold medal, if he snuck his way into the olympics.

And as for the "eliminator" that he won, he beat a decent fighter (good win), but realistically, where did these two guys rank in the world. Boystov had never fought or beaten a top 30 fighter. His best win seems to be against a past it Dominic Guinn. He had beat a lot of regional fighters quite well, but if you were ranking fighters, he would be ranked behind (or at best the equal of) the like of Klitchsko (Vitali), Haye, Chisora, Povetkin, Wach, Haye, MOrmeck, Ibragimov, Lebdev, and about another 50 fighters. Leapai (as much as i like him) would be either further behind, maybe not even top 100.

The Ross v Kaufman " eliminator" was not so far ahead of this one in terms of actual status and rankings that it isnt funny, not that there were not quite a few better fighters than these two guys.

And of course, the point made by one of the other challengers is what i was getting at. Rademacher might not have deserved his challenge, but he certainly did better than Leapai and, imo, would start favourite in a fight with Leapai, given what we both know about it.

 

That's true but his limited pro career had a few quality wins.

 

Rademacher was a ridiculous challenger, but looking at his whole career, his is by no means the worst to get a shot. He never lost to a man who at one time or another was not a top ten fighter, and he had some quality wins. Besides Chuvalo and Besmanoff, Bobo Olson and LaMar Clark. I imagine if Clark had gotten that shot with his gaudy statistical record, there would be much less controversy.