Marciano vs Foreman... What Can The Rock Do?

Savold wasn't ranked when Marciano beat him and Mathews was a well managed hype job,[ similar to Lastarza ,] who was a lhvy. Prior to fighting Marciano, Mathews only win of any consequence at heavyweight was over a diminished Rex Layne whom Marciano had ruined.

Jack Hurley his manager turned down a shot at the 175lbs crown to get a slice of the bigger pie.
Don't think he was rated at heavyweight either.

Facing Marciano for the first time Lastarza had only one win over a marginal name ,Cesar Brion.If you want to talk about fighters being protected, look no further than Lastarza and Mathews. Don't think Lastarza was rated above Marciano, he only made no 10 at the end of 49
I'm not going over their respective records again ,I'm satisfied I proved my point.

 

This is incorrect,only Lastarza ,Layne and Louis were rated.That is not "a lot".Lastarza was no 10 in 1949 he fought Marciano in March 1950 he was rated below Rocky, as was Layne.

I'm in the middle of having our house decorated and my books and magazines are stored , otherwise I would go through my 1950's Ring magazines.

 

Yeah ,and Harry Kid Mathews , who never ko'd a rated heavyweight stopped Ted Lowry ,who gave Marciano life and death, twice going the distance in both and some say winning the first fight.
In the recent Ring magazines both Shavers and Foreman named Ron Lyle as the hardest puncher they ever met.I'll settle for that.
On the subject of Moore, he gave that honour to Yvon Durelle,NOT Marciano.
Shavers was no 6 in 1975 ,[when Lyle kod him ,] and no6 in 1973,no 6 in1977,no5 in 1979.

 

typical EGO when a fighter calls the guy they beat the hardest puncher instead of the guy that stopped him which is the case in all of these "quotes" Perhaps a fighter feels less when he is in a concussive state.

Lyle was a strong guy but he struggled to KO many guys once he moved up in class ( as I showed in an earlier post) and Moore pretty much got the beating of his life vs Marciano and was basically ruined as a heavyweight. As far as Shavers I seen him get Ko'd by many, Stander,Mercado,Cobb,Quarry,Holmes,Stallings (dropped him late), etc. for the Lyle fight he ran out of steam and was a sitting duck on the ropes but tired and allowed Ron to finish him. Quarry got to him quick after a trade 1st rd and I was there MSG so maybe he didn't feel it but the rest of those KO losses were attrition and a case of Earnie running out of gas.

 

Shavers gassed and quit at the very start of the 6th round if I recall. Interestingly enough Jimmy Young was asked who hit him the hardest and his list seems to be the most honest of any of read. He rates them in order like this.

1. Earnie Shavers
2. George Foreman
3. Gerry Cooney.

 

Moore was a fat 42 years old lhvy who said himself his legs were gone before he fought Marciano. I'm positive you would accpet their opinions if it jived with your own.

 

Moore was on the best win streak in his entire career, he beat the top Heavyweight Nino Valdes 2x and KO'd Bob Baker he had only lost 2x in his last 50+ fights one was a bad decision that he avenged by KO over ATG Harold Johnson and the other was a DQ. He KO'd a bunch of huge heavyweights in this time frame so if his legs were gone then so much for legs. Archie did in fact get the beating of his life and was basically ruined by Marciano ( a pattern for Rocky-Layne-LaStarza,Walcott,Moore,Vingo,Charles,etc. He was never the same as Heavyweight but managed to comply a 38-4-2 record after Rocky and fought the great Ali 9 years later

 

Walcott, Moore,Charles were all past prime ,Vingo was a novice really ,the better name for your argument would have been Layne or ****ell. I agree Marciano ruined a few guys,some were hyped such as Lastarza and Mathews,others had a lot of mileage on their clocks .

He was a great champ fortunate to have been around in the right era.

In the 50' s and 60's neither Walcott, or Charles were considered great champions.There has been lot of revisionism regarding their careers in the last two decades.

 

Carmine Vingo was 19 years old weighing only 189 lbs at 6'4". At 19 years of age with only 189 lbs on his 6'4" frame, he likely looked like a new born fawn struggling to stand on all fours. He also had no real experience.

 

But who knows what he might have developed into? What did Holyfeild weigh at 19? Ali was a 176lb Olympian at 19.

We will never know. Maybe he was nothing.

 

It is a LOT MORE contenders than Foreman fought up to and including 1972.

Beating 3 rated contenders is automatic title shot stuff in most era's. There is a lot of talk about Sonny Liston being such an outstanding contender who "cleaned out the division" but even he only beat three "at that time" rated contenders machen, Harris and Folley.

How can marciano have been "more protected" than Foreman on the way up when he fought five rated contenders (3 current) and foreman only fought one?

 

What he might have filled out at wasn't what I was referring to. It was about what he looked like specifically when Rocky faced him. It looks good on paper that he battered a guy who was 6'4" with a record of 16-1.....Until one starts examining the details.

 

The underlined simply isn't true.the only big heavyweight of any class he beat prior to facing Marciano was Baker 209lbs, Baker had won one of his last three fights been stopped in 1 rd by Satterfield,Lovell was 199lbs and 39 years old having his last fight.Davidson was a journeyman whom Henry had bombed out and who would be stopped by Toxie Hall, Marciano's sparring partner who dropped Marciano prior to the ****ell fight.
Of Moores last 22 fights prior to Marciano,, 10 went the distance and 5 of his stoppage wins were over lhv's
.Moore had not been" koing a bunch of huge heavyweights" at all.

 

Enzo macrianelli, Al Cole, Guillermo Jones, jaun Carlos Gomez were about the same size when they were much older than 19. I don't think either of them looked like a new born horse not strong enough to stand up. Do you?

 

Heres some footage that I found though I don't know how much of it is real. Vingo doesn't look that bad ( assuming that its really him ) Still. A 19 year old kid weighing 189 at 6'4" and only 16 fights against nobodies isn't exactly a huge claim to beating a bigger man on the level that we're talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_LS0KVhlhM