Marciano vs Foreman... What Can The Rock Do?

Yeah, Vingo was just a novice.
Marciano wasn't exactly an experienced fighter but he was a rugged 26-year-old, huge puncher, with a couple of 10-rounders under his belt.
Vingo was badly matched, but perhaps his manager had little choice.
Rocky's manager was matchmaker at MSG, so I guess he could virtually force any aspiring NY heavyweight who wanted a main event at the Garden to face Rocky on his timetable, not theirs.

 

All Moore had to do was put on 10 - 12 lbs to be " eligible " to fight as a Heavy. For a man born in 1916 who won the 175 title at age 36 I wouldn't think it was too hard to do.

 

My uncles were big fans of Vingo, he was green but they all felt he had great potential and Vingo was getting some big venues in NY for a novice. I heard Vingo could bang but being green he was not a finisher. This Marciano from Boston came and ruined things for the kid from the Bronx and then he went and beat LaStarza. I dont think they bet against him again.

 

Here is a few he beat W10 Valdes X2 Valdes was 6"3 215, Bob Baker 6"2.5 210, Embrell Davidson 6"2.5 210, Alberto Lovell 6'3, Abel Cestac 6"4, Clarance Henry 6"1.5 and he even Ko'd a few Big guys after Marcinao Alejandro Laverente 6"4 and James J. Parker 6"3

 

It would be crazy to pretend that vingo might have been something or was something at that point, but back then MSG had a knowledgeable audience and it was the world's premier venue. It is still talked about as a great fight and the winner became a ATG fighter. Vingo was not the kind of fight you give a protected fighter. It must have resembled a simular fight on paper to Foreman v Boone. Imagine if Foreman was smaller than Boone?

 

He didnt ko Valdes in either fight.
Lovell was 199lbs and 39 years old, having his last fight.
Cestac was retired and had gone the distance in his previous fight with Moore.
Henry went the distance, he was 6'1"and under 185lbs for their fight.
Davidson was 6'1"and had been stopped by Henry in his previous fight.He was never more than a journeyman anyway.
Baker was 6'2"
Lavorante and Parker are not relevant to this discussion.
Every statistical error you've made is on your side,curious that.:think
You have a real problem saying "I was wrong," don't you?

 

Marciano makes easy work of GF.

Watch GF vs morison

Foreman had poor ring iq, rocky had too much heart and would shut down foreman.

 

He dominated the big guys of the era and the top contenders in Valdes and KO'd Baker, you said he didn't beat Big men, well these were the big men and the best of them in that era and Cestac was 6'4 and Archie KO'd him, you said he did not beat big men....Archie also beat some great lightheays that were beating heavyweights such as Harold Johnson and Joey Maxim, his run to Marciano was his best and the deepest and he was truly deserving...I think you have a problem saying you were wrong I answered you when you said he didn't beat Big men....he did beat them in fact

 

The thread is pitting a prime Foreman against Marciano, a Foreman who was many levels higher than the versions of Valdes or Baker or that nobody named Cestac that Moore KO'd… God Bless Bob Baker but he was not even truly elite in his era of midget heavies. Satterfield turned him out in 1. When was the last light heavy in the heavy division who was KO'ing elite heavies in 1 round? It doesn't happen because the larger athletes have grown so much better and quite a bit larger. Likewise, no slow moving power punching 185 pounder with T-Rex arms hasn't DOMINATED the division since Marciano. It doesn't happen anymore. It didn't happen in the 1970's. Stop trying to prop up ham and eggers whose yesteryear whose records are mediocre and whose dimensions are undersized for the new breed.

 

I think it has been established over and over that 90% of today's "modern sized heavyweight" who stand 6 foot and above are the same sized men who have always been around. They just weigh more due to today's training trends.

The finest example is Foreman himself. 217 in 1973 and 240 odd in the 1990s.

Maybe 240lb odd has taken the sub 6 foot heavyweight out of the equation somewhat but that's all. They crop up from time to time just like always. You k ow they do. The 189 pounders won't come back because they have to weigh more to get out of cruiserweight. Ali and Holmes both fought within the modern cruiserweight limit but that was only because anything over 176 was heavyweight. Both are genuine modern sized heavyweights.

Saying there is a new breed of Heavyweight is nonsense. It's the same guys just heavier. The Klits Lewis and Bowe were taller and appeared to develop more skill than previous giants only because the division had slowed down so much. If 230 plus had of been in the minority and they had to chase a division of 190 pounders who were hitting them at 190 pace with smaller gloves they would not have looked so skilled. Why do you think so many contenders can get away with being 40 years old? It's because the pace has slowed. Muscular laboriously encumbered men leaning on one another.

 

what can he do??

punch foreman in the chops.

 

Exactly. Everyone hit Foreman with right hands. They could not miss.

It's not an easy fight but to dismiss Marcianos chances altogether is to rule out him landing a punch.

 

hes bound to get blown out at some point but that herky jerky head bobbing frazier's movement werent gonna work with a loopy wild puncher like young foreman he was gonna bob his way into a fist, marciano slower but more gradual pressure would be a bit better with high gaurd, and throw a few body shots, arm shots, and you never know.

hard to hurt foreman though so he would probably bully little rocky around the ring and ko him by the 5th.

 

So if we didn't have a cruiserweight division today, and everybody over 175 lbs was a heavyweight... then we would still see 190 pounders being crowned heavyweight champion? Is that what you're saying?

And if we transported prime Bowe, Lewis, Wlad and Vitali back in time to the 50's, they wouldn't be able to rise to the very top - because, size-wise, they would be in the minority; surrounded by all those great 190 pounders, who were faster and more skilled, thanks to superior training methods back then? Is that how it works?

 

No I said he didnt ko huge heavyweights,which is what you stated

I never said he didn't beat big men I said he didnt ko huge heavyweights in his winning run up to Marciano and,apart from Baker he didn't.

And its in black and white for all to read on Box rec
Moore did not ko Cestac, Cestac was retired on the advice of the ring doctor.Cestac had won NONE of his last 4 fights,would have 2 more and lose both of them, then retire , he was a trial horse at best.

Moore beat two great lhvy's Johnson, and Maxim, He fought Johnson 5 times, scoring just one tko,he fought Maxim 3 times scoring no stoppages.The other great lhvy' he fought ,Charles beat him 3 out of 3 stopping him in one of them.

In his last fight before challenging Marciano, Moore defended against the reigning middleweight champ Olson thats one of his 12 stoppages in his 22 fights leading up to his title challenge.
I have no problem saying I was wrong, I frequently am.
However in this case I am right and we both know it, but one of us ,you doesn't want to admit it.