Who could have beaten a prime Roy Jones Jr?

I remember saying Roy had a better speed/power combination than Hagler, and I remember saying I thought Roy was p4p a better puncher..

I don't really call that protesting, just stating an opinion.

I did come at you kind of hard for the statement about DM and Jones common opposition, for that I apologize.:good

 

easily SRL accomplished way more and has a better resume.

 

Where did I say that? :huh

Hopkins wasn't Class A when Jones fought him. Toney was. James Toney is Roy's lone win against a fighter in that category. I was speaking of Jones looking 'unbeatable' against the Otis Grants, Richard Halls, Richard Frazier, Glen Kelly types compared to ATG's from the past. For sure you can understand that? A RJJ vs Spinks fight isn't going to look anything close to the RJJ Glen Kelly fight. That was my point. :good

 

Nobody beats RJJ at 168....period. To fast, too powerful, to elusive, too good.

 

This line of thinking interests me a lot.

Because we saw what Roy did at SMW and LHW. We saw how fast and skilled he was.

So we know what his capabilities were at MW.

The guy we saw at SMW, was basically the same guy that was at MW.

We didn't see him for long, but what difference does it make?

Just imagine the Toney version of Roy, but fighting at MW against smaller guys.

It's not hard to envisage that he'd have given any MW in history a tough fight.

 

Of course.

I don't understand this debate where Marvin had more proven power at MW.

Of course, he had 67 fights there.

So what?

We know Roy had more overall power.

He knocked out Griffin with one shot who weighed in the 180's.

He dropped Malinga, and crushed Tate etc.

Marvin sometimes used to weigh in below 160 with same day weigh ins.

Roy was huge at MW.

Even though he hasn't got comparable stats, I think it's safe to assume that he was bigger the bigger puncher at the weight.

 

I think if Eric Harding never tore his shoulder he would've beat Roy, he was doing well enough with one hand.

 

Harding?? yes, and you are doing well with one hand too, you naughty boy.

 

at smw, its safe to say jones had the tools to beat everyone. however smw is a yung division that has yet to yield more than 1 or 2 truly ATG fighters. That's calzaghe isin the top ten for defending a worthless strap says volumes, no other division displays such paucity.

in time we will see someone at smw who had a fair chance at roy.

However those with the best chance from this fledgling would be Lilles, Benn and Ward. But I stress that the odds would not be in their favour.

Did Hearns fight at SMW? If so then he had a fair chance.


At LHW there are several good candidates, Roy was not of peak ability at LHW.

 

My point is that I don't think it is even slightly logical to try and guess how Roy could have done at middleweight or against ATG middles based upon how he did at higher weights.

It would be like me starting threads talking about how Ali would have done in match ups against Light Heavyweights, and saying 'well he won a gold in the Olympics there and look at his speed and punch resistance at HW ... Ali >>> Every Light Heavyweight champion in history'

Roy Jones, in my mind, is without a doubt the greatest super middleweight of all time. But at middleweight he doesn't have a bunch of fights you can point to and say 'oh look how he dismantled that great fighter'. Yes he looked fast and strong for the short time he stayed there, but aside from Hopkins (whom I have already pointed out I don't believe was the fighter he would later become) the only people he fought there were hardly ATGs. Of course he is gonna look great against them.

I don't want to come across like I have a vendetta against Jones because he is one of my favourite fighters and had one of the most entertaining styles I have ever witnessed, but for me the fighters who established themselves as the best of the greats at MW over a much longer period of their career, or all of it in some cases, should always be favoured to beat Roy.

 

I need two hands.

 

:good

 

Good post, but remember they had same day weigh ins at LHW, and Roy used to weigh in around 175 whilst at his peak for SMW fights.

It depends which way you look at things, and what circumstances you allow for when doing fantasy fights.

I know people look at fantasy fights from different perspectives.

But if I look at Bob Foster and Roy, I don't envisage what would have happened if Foster had been peak in the 90's, or Roy would have been peak in the 60's.

I think about a time machine fight. Where Foster at his best, would have met a 25 year old version of Roy at SMW.

 

frosty36,

Fair enough.

I respect your opinion.

But there's enough evidence for me.

He didn't mix it with best at MW, because he was stifled by his father. But he iced Tate and beat Hopkins with an injured hand, who didn't go on to lose for another 12 years.

There was only 18 months between the Hopkins fight and the Toney one.

I think the only issue, would have been his long he could have fought at the weight, before it got too much for him.

But I think we can picture Roy at MW, as good as he was against Toney, and with advantages in speed and size over a lot of the guys.

Well I don't think so, because again, there was only 18 months from Hopkins to Toney, and he fought Malinga just after Hopkins.

So you could envisage the Malinga version of Roy fighting any MW.

Fair enough, but he only had 6/7 fights at SMW, and only two of those fights were against good/great opponents in Malinga and Toney. But based off of those fights, you can envisage those versions of him fighting Collins, Benn, Eubank and Calzaghe etc and predicting the outcomes. You can also make predictions of him fighting the great LHW's of the past, based on his fight night weights from SMW.

Again, I respect your opinion.

But again, in my opinion, I just picture the Tate/Malinga/Toney versions of Roy against the likes of Hagler etc, and assume that he could have made the weight.

The reason I don't envisage the Hopkins version, is due to the injured hand that he had at the time.