please, Luden is desperate! When u say things like "Floyd is frightened of Pac", that's what u have becuz why would Floyd be frightened of Pac then accept a fight with the guy that just knocked him out? and then go on to dominate him I dont know if these people really believe what they write and are just whacked or what I think they are looking for ways to come down on Floyd while trying to give Ray a free pass. but that cant becuz Floyd is unbeaten so the question is, how do u come down on perfection? answer: u have to do a lot of fabricating
What I saw along with anyone else who wasn't a blinkered verminous Leonard fanboy like you was Hearns outboxing Leonard up until he was too weak through dehydration to dominate any longer, and Leonard then used his strength. But for 11 rounds he was far from the aggressor. I then saw Tommy out box, out punch, and out fight Leonard in the rematch, only for more scum Leonard fanboys like you to give him a draw. Go on you subhuman piece of ****, tell us that Leonard was the aggressor against the Hagler you claim to know so much about.:roll::roll: Fvckwit.
He fought Marquez when he was having his first fight at welter and then even though he was fighting the smaller man came in over the agreed weight. By the way it was a good couple of years before Marquez knocked out Pac. Difference between Pac and Marquez is that Manny's a southpaw. He brings different stylistic problems for floyd. Who's doing the fabricating?
since both men came up several divsions, what does it matter? Floyd made the adjustment and came up the winner. it seems no matter what style Floyd is presented with, he always bests the opponent. that's why he's the top dog in the sport and making the kind of money Ray Leonard only dreamt of and get this, Floyd's opposition is LIVE while Ray was content to make his money against ripoffs or as I say, the remedial boxing tour o the 80s, starting with Hagler, then Lalonde, Hearns 2, uno mas and I guess you could throw in Kevin Howard, and mercifully ended with Norris that's the diff between Floyd N Ray. Floyd can handle live opposition in his old age, Ray couldnt
Yawn. Benitez was just a slick as Pernell Whitaker. Basically they do not come as slick as Wilfredo Benitez. Duran could not touch him. Leonard was swinging and missing by miles at times. As a matter of fact, the Leonard-Benitez fight is one of the greatest technically matched fights ever. Did Benitez lose to Cervantes, Duran, Palomino, or Maurice Hope (who KO'ed Autuofermo)? All Hall of Famers BTW, except Hope, but obviously Hope was no bum. Basically, Benitez earned his greatness by fighting great fighters. Went the distance with Hearns. As far as your comment on Hearns. He KO'ed Cuevas in two rounds to take the title and three fights later he fought Leonard. After the Cuevas fight Hearns was calling out Duran. People understood that Hearns was special and he proved it throughout his career. Now, for some reason you do not understand fighter in their prime versus fighters who are old fighting waaay past thier prime. There is some kind revolution going on around here that is convinced that Leonard was a bum because he lost to fighters like Norris after he was way out of his prime. Do you Realize that Robinson lost to guys after his prime that he would have killed in his prime? Tyson lost to Kevin McBride. Roy Jones lost to some bum in some other country. How hard is this to figure out? You take the prime of the fighter and you judge his greatness in head to head match based on that. I am becoming convinced that these types just do not like boxing at all.
rooster, Ray beat two great boxers in Benitez and Hearns. What do you mean why did it take 11 to take out Bonds? What sort of question is that? How does that have any relevance? I'll throw a stupid one back at you. Why did it take Floyd 10 rounds to take out Hatton? I see you've tried to discredit the Hagler win again. Was Marvin past his best? Yes. But Ray was a peak WW, who moved up to take him on after three years of inactivity. But Marvin certainly wasn't a shell. He was past his peak, but he was still a great fighter. He hadn't slipped that much. It's not like he was like Ali in his late 30's, or Roy Jones in his 40's. In his two previous fights he'd beaten Hearns and Mugabi. But why do you keep taking these little swipes, when we both know that Floyd would never have taken a challenge like that? With regards to why I think Ray would have walked Floyd down, because of the clash of styles. It's really surprising to see someone on the classic, that doesn't fully appreciate the old adage, of 'styles make fights' I've tried to give you examples before, but you turn away and give childish responses. Do you know why Ray was behind on points to Hearns? Because Hearns was a great boxer, who possessed a fantastic jab, who stood at 6'1, with a 78' reach. That's why he was behind on points. When he knew he couldn't out box him, he made the decision to fight him. That showed lots of heart and determination. Going into the centre of the ring for a shoot out with a bigger man that had a huge right hand, while one of his eyes was swollen, and he was tired. Ray was the pretty boy fighter who did the commercials and appeared on the cover of magazines etc, but he could fight when he needed to. Back to Floyd. Ray struggling to out box Hearns and being behind on points, has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER when discussing a fantasy match up against Floyd. Because Hearns and Floyd are as different as night and day. This has been explained to you about five times now. At WW, Floyd is a safety first fighter, who doesn't throw many shots. Ray was equal in skill to Floyd, equal in speed, and was bigger, taller, stronger and had more fire power. Floyd has NOTHING in his arsenal to stop Ray from walking forward. He has NO stopping power. He has power to gain a guys respect, but nothing to deter a bigger man with an equal skill set. Ray would have had NO RESPECT whatsoever for Floyd's power. Which would have meant that he'd have just kept on going forward, at which point Floyd's top priority would have been trying not to get hit and hurt. Which would have meant that he would have been so concerned with his defence, he would have neglected his own offense. Do you think that a guy who had the balls to fight a peak Tommy Hearns in a shoot out, wouldn't have walked Floyd down? Ray would have thrown combinations with authority, with more variation than Floyd, and Floyd could never have accumulated enough points to have won the fight. (He couldn't even have contemplated stopping Ray) It's ok picturing Floyd pot shotting guys with his supreme speed etc, and letting his hands go at the lower weights against the likes of Gatti (RIP) but he couldn't have done that with Ray at WW. You keep bringing up Terry Norris as an example, but if you analyze how Floyd fights, and analyzed how Ray and Terry fought, then you'd realise that Floyd would never have fought Ray in the same manner that Terry did. All of the above, is my absolute honest opinion, and why I don't think Floyd would ever have taken the fight. All things considered, he'd have been at a big disadvantage. I don't believe it for a second, because again, styles make fights. Simply put, Floyd wouldn't have fought in the same manner as his father, which would have meant that Ray wouldn't have fought Floyd Jr in the same manner. Floyd would not have beaten Ray to the punch, because defence would have been paramount for him. Ha! Of course Floyd doesn't carefully select his opponents, right? I think at that stage of Ray's career, he could pick and chose he wanted. He'd already beat Benitez, Hearns, Duran and Hagler. The 'Money man' who's in the 'cheque cashing business' walked away from millions of dollars that a rematch with Oscar would have brought, because he wanted a vacation. Let me tell you something. If we were in the early 80's right now, Floyd would have taken more vacations than Clark W. Griswold. (Chevy Chase) He was a peak WW, who'd had to retire with a detached retina. Again, let's not kid ourselves that Floyd would have taken that same challenge, and that he's got any win on his resume that stacks up to that one. There's only you on this thread that's bothered about Norris. FORGET NORRIS. Norris beating Ray at 35, doesn't mean that Floyd would have. It's simple. Floyd at WW was ten years younger, and Floyd and Norris aren't alike. Move on from it. Again, it's irrelevant. I don't care if Floyd's never lost. Rocky Marciano and Joe Calzaghe never lost. Ray had ALL of the tools to beat Floyd. Again, he was equal in skill, speed, footwork, he threw more combinations, with more frequency, with more variation, and was bigger, stronger, taller, with more reach and more fire power. Plus, he had more heart and determination. Ray held the better hand at the table. Don't embarrass yourself by trying to compare the wins of each fighter. Floyd's best wins pale in comparison. One of the stupidest things I've ever read on here. Ha! Nice try. If Ray had just fought those four guys and then retired, he'd have a better than resume than Floyd. Here's Terry again. Nobody's going to change your mind, because of the following reasons: You're ignorant on a number of issues. You never allow for circumstances. You don't use logic. You're obsessed with BoxRec statistics and doing like for like comparisons. Likewise, wins for Floyd over Marg, Cotto (earlier) Williams and Manny etc - the stronger the resume.
Duran? I saw that fight and was far from impressed. Duran did nothing, that's why he won. Hey, if the opponent does nothing, what do you expect? the Leonard - Benitez fight is one of the more forgettable title fights of all time. the only thing fans remember that nite was the Hagler-Atuofuermo fight and shouldve been the main event, not that bore-snore Benitez Leonard where all they did was stare at each other. as for Hearns, he was a good prospect, probably ready for Leonard altho underweight, but not that accomplished other than the Cuevas fight, only 3 title fights all against weak, anemic types. Primera, not a force in the ranks, Shields, not a serious threat and Baez with his emergency top 10 ranking this just proves my point. now I am not saying Ray Leonard is a bum, he is ranked 45 in my top 100, but only that he couldnt handle live young fighters becuz scan his record, how many were there? he had his chance with Hagler, the top dog in the sport but was scared shitless and stuck his head in the sand for 5 years. that's strike one strike two came against Pryor who he blatantly turned down. strike three came when he was active and bypassed Nunn who I know he hated Why would I pick against Floyd when the opponent is Ray Leonard who filed misreably in the Norris fight? Had he WON as he should have, it would be different but the way he bypassed the big three and opted for lesser versions or sidestepped others, while Floyd is still unbeaten, that tells me Floyd is more worthy and a real winner while Ray was a mere compromiser Floyd's record of success is the telling factor here
Ha! Perfection? Why would Floyd have been frightened of Manny, when he accepted a fight against the guy that knocked him out? Not only is Floyd a perfect, unbeaten fighter, he's also a psychic, perfect, unbeaten fighter. The guy's so gifted he can see into the future. He obviously knew in 2009, that Marquez was going to knock out Manny three years later in 2012. Ha! Manny is a southpaw, that throws lot's of punches and applies pressure. We've just seen Maidana cause Floyd loads of trouble. It's obvious that Manny would have been a stylistic problem for him.
Honestly, Ray Leonard is one of the best fighters to walk Floyd down, period. Ring generalship, will, fast hands, a terrific arsenal of punches, quick feet, and a natural welter through and through. Floyd is without a doubt in the same class as Leonard. He is not, however, a natural welter. His class allowed him to campaign there successfully. Taking into account Floyds punching power, his offense in general and Leonards reflexes and chin, it is doubtful Floyd could inflict real hurt on Leonard. He has no deterrent to keep him from walking him down. Ask Floyd senior what that feels like. Of course, Floyd is incredibly difficult to hit. His game is hit and not be hit. He's very good at it. If his offense is not a deterrent, can his legs and defensive technique secure him a points win on an aggressive Leonard? I don't think it can. Leonard has fast feet to get into position, fast hands to deliver, a variety of punches to choose from and a sturdy chin to catch what's coming back. He can force the issue and come out on top during the mid-rounds and take over the fight. I don't think Floyd get's knocked out -- but he'll be hurt, and he'll look like the loser. This is not Zab Judah, but Ray Leonard, and orthodox stance or no, he can play that game way better than Judah did.
He HAD to retire? listen to yourself. break it down confused one and u will see that I am right. he would not fight until he was cleared to fight but wasnt he cleared to fight in 1982? why then couldnt he fight? what's more, why was he still fighting at the age of 40? u see m'brutha? u see the error of your ways? it just take a clear educated mind like myself t point it out to you to which you can then reply "Oh yeah" who said I was bothered by Norris? I use it to point our Leonard's deficiencies as a fighter and his limitatons. It's actually YOU who is bothered when I bring up Norris for this reason! U TRY to get my mind off it so's I wont bring it up again becuz it's people like u who dont want it brought up. that way I wont have an actual event to point to. U would much rather say Benitez, hearns, Duran, etc its as they say, styles make fights, and the loss to Norris perfectly illustrates his weakness, namely the inability to hit a moving target. and make no mistake, Floyd would give him plenty, making him miss then making him pay he wouldnt HURT leonard, no, just frustrate him. he certainly wouldnt make like the punching bag his Dad was
Manny fights nothing like Maidana, and would have been easier for Floyd. He fights from mid-range, dammit, and not sophisticated enough to cause Mayweather trouble.
who said he was frightened of Manny? I didnt, you did just becuz you state something, does that make it true? no In fact, most things that ARE true, you try to discount or dismiss u go on making excuses for all Floyd's success. Floyd can buy an NBA team if he wanted. that's fact fact is, he's where he is becuz of his success and I would like to ask you, where was Ray Leonard at age 38? answer: still licking his wounds from the Norris fight Oh, if only he'd not taken the Norris fight or better yet, if only he'd taken it and won
I never mentioned Ray. I was just commenting on your post talking about people fabricating when you clearly added a bit colour to your statement that Floyd took on Marquez just after he knocked Pac out.