Floyd Mayweather vs Ray Leonard...

Who's said that Hagler was still prime when Ray fought him?

Who's said that Floyd was unskilled and useless?


Are you exaggerating, or as someone actually said these things?


Why are you calling Ray a cretin?


Nobody's trying to alter any facts about Ray losing to Norris and Camacho etc.

Yes, there's no excuses, and he was cleared to fight etc.

But you've said yourself that he'd lost his athleticism at 35.


Nobody needs to pretend that the losses didn't happen, but they need putting into context.


If we named every fighter who'd been humiliated by losing past prime, then we'd both be here all night.

There's countless examples to give.


Only time will tell, whether or not the same thing happens to Floyd.

 

Leonard decisions Floyd easily or late stoppage. Repeat of Benitez fight but more lopsided

 

I think Floyd Mayweather vs Benitez would be a real competitive match that I would neglect to bet on. Ray has Floyd on size and offense, and Floyd doesn't really have anything over Ray that equals that.

 

Yeah, their fight is the most contested, hardest to score, fight in the history of boxing.

If they fought while they were both in their prime then, just like the former lightweight Duran, was the toughest title defense of Haglers career, Leonard the greater, larger, faster, stronger fighter would have been even tougher.

Sticks and stones...

 

Size, strength and power advantages simply don't cut it over a fighter with the ring IQ, and skills of a Mayweather, as evidenced by Hagler NOT being able to do the same to Leonard.

Hagler was nowhere near his prime, but he still had the strength, punch power and size, ( apart from height ) advantages.

Now whether or not Leonard had dozens of " mock " fights behind closed doors ( as some people claim ) in the 3 years he was allegedly retired I neither know nor care, but in any event the fight was close, and the size, power and strength advantages counted for ****.

So as far as I'm concerned, anyone who believes they would count over a fighter with Mayweathers class can only be an idiot.

Funny how the haters who are clinging on to him not looking so good at 37 in his recent fight against Maidana want to give Leonard a free pass for getting fvcked at 34.

 

Can anyone please give me PBF,s signature victory against a prime,at their best weight fighter ?? As for PBF,s `class`,looking at who he fought, that,s certainly rings a bit hollow. The only fighter who was considered a threat was Chico, who PBF dominated. but that was many years and lbs.ago. And with all due respect to Chico, he wasn,t ever considered an elite fighter. PBF`signature` wins, old and well worn, Mosely,Cotto, never was Baldomir, still green and catch-weight Canelo,a squeaker against an old and semi-retired Oscar,actually losing to Castillo first time out. This makes an ATG ?? Then you look at the names, Duran, Benitez,Hearns and Hagler. Does anyone on here REALLY think that PBF would ever sign a contract to fight ANY of these guys ??? I say that PBF doen,t have the intangibles to win a war of attrition against these greats. Floyd cherry-picks,FACT ! And it will forever cost him in the debate over his legacy... Those aforementioned fighters will always look down their noses and sneer at PBF,s claim to greatness secure in the knowledge that he never truly proved it against any ATG... Isn,t it kind of amusing thinking about the `Hitman` would do to little Floyd with that pathetic attempt to shoulder roll away from the bombs Hearn,s throws !! After softening him up with `78` inches of a piston-like jab... PBF wouldn,t make 4 rds with Hearns !

 

JLP, foxy lives in a highly dysfunctional world in which name calling (******, moron) are used as terms of intelligence and endearment as well... Once disagreed with, he starts his `brand` of cerebral assault

 

yes, I agree. Ray is more apt towards the large clumsy types - not much speed, - not much brains - Lalonde, etc

Against faster, more agile fighters he doesnt do so well. Look at the evidence

Good thing he passed over Nunn for others more suited for him

 

no it is not bull**** but fact. I saw him in sparring the month before and posted the photo. You can ask John Thomas becuz he has seen it

but it's a free country and we can believe in fairy tales if we so wish we can invent myths if we wish. the problem is, can you sell us on them?

I dont think there's anyone who actually believes things like "Hagler was bitter so he walked away from the sport"

You yourself dont believe it. why would you expect me to believe it?

Retirement only makes sense when youre finished as a fighter

but again, you're in denial. you wont even acknowledge the quote on the tape itself and try to rationalize

With Floyd there was never any controversies, no questionable career moves in which his fans must contiually find ways to spin

If Floyd has the better numbers, and he has, that means everything Ray did, Floyd does better

In a head to head matchup, would Ray's size help him against Floyd? Not necessarily. Lalonde's size didnt help him against the smaller but more agile & polished Leonard

Ray would have to rely heavily on Floyd slowing down, as he did against Hagler, otherwise he wouldnt match up well

I think Floyd does take this one becuz as hard as I try to imagine, I just cant imagine Floyd losing to someone like Leonard who is of lesser stock

 

Wow, you,ve outdone yourself this time with your brilliant name-calling !! With this totally sad way of being, you must live in a closet all alone,correct ? Even family has to distance themselves from pathetic forms of abuse... And pal, you are one pathetic human being ! Have you figured out that the only person who agrees with your `brilliant opinion` is Rooster ??? Also could you use your `brain` ? And not respond to my posts, I prefer conversing with human beings... Not sure what your sad story is.. But it,s sadly dysfunctional at best ...

 

I can see your line of thinking, but IMHO you're overlooking a number of things.

Now realistically, Ray and Floyd could only have fought at either WW or JMW, with WW been the fairest match up.

Now in your comparison, you're talking about a different version of Ray, facing a completely different style of fighter to Floyd.

Now if you put Floyd in a time machine, and matched him up with Ray when he was at WW, then Floyd WOULD NOT have been facing the same guy that Marvin faced in 1987.


Now in 1987, Ray respected that Marvin was naturally the bigger guy, and he was fighting at MW, where Marvin had been established for a long time.

But Marvin didn't have huge physical advantages over Ray, and we've already established that Marvin was also past his best.

Marvin was 5'9, with a 75' reach, and he weighed in for the fight at 158.5 pounds.

Ray was 5'10, with a 74' reach, and he weighed in for the fight at 158 pounds.

So again, apart from Marvin been naturally bigger and established at the weight, their size, weight and reach were about equal.

So you can't say that Ray's advantages in strength and size wouldn't come into play against Floyd, just because Marvin's strength and size advantages didn't come into play that much in 1987.

You're talking about two completely different scenarios.


Ray respected Hagler's power, and flurried to avoid getting tagged clean.

But Ray would have had no respect whatsoever for Floyd's power.


You and rooster need to concentrate more on doing a direct comparison between Ray and Floyd at WW, instead of looking at what happened when both guys fought other people, at different weights and at different stages of their careers.

Forget Hagler and Norris etc, and look closer at Ray and Floyd.


They are about equal in skills, with Floyd having a better defence.

They are about equal in hand speed and footwork, with Ray throwing more shots, with more variation.

But Ray is taller, with a bigger reach, and had much more fire power.

Floyd as great as he his, would have had NOTHING in his arsenal to have prevented Ray from walking him down.

He has no stopping power at the weight.

So forget what happened between Ray and Marvin in 1987, Ray at his WW peak, would have held too many advantages over Floyd.


The old adage of 'styles make fights' is not a cliche.

Ray wouldn't have been wary like he was against Marvin, flurrying to score points.

He would have walked forward with authority and put Floyd on the defensive from the opening bell.


Floyd's peak was obviously at the lower weights.

The versions of Floyd, from 2005 to the present day, would have been at a significant disadvantage, against the versions of Ray from the early 80's.

That doesn't mean that Floyd isn't an exceptional, ATG fighter in his own right.


But at WW, Ray would have just had too much for him.

 

JLP, where would Eastside be without his astounding input ???

 

Great points made Loudon... And I really feel it would come down to wills as much as skills. Ray wanted to be the TRUE best and he fought like that to prove it. I mean seriously, can you imagine what Montreal Duran would have done to PBF ?

 

You are a truly sad character ... You do get that you and rooster live in the same well padded room BTW, I love your attempts at spelling ! And ,I,m stupid

 

I think we're done here.

Because again, you are ignorant on many issues, and you don't allow for circumstances etc.

It's a waste of time.

I can appreciate someone else not agreeing with me, and seeing things from a different point of view, but not when there's been no logic applied.


I've already agreed with you that Marvin was past his best.

But you're completely overlooking the fact that Ray had never fought at MW, and he'd only fought once in five years.

Also, Marvin desperately wanted a rematch. So he didn't want to retire.

So there is no fairy tail.

Marvin wanted a rematch because he was outraged with the decision.

He hung around for around a year, and when it didn't materialize, he moved away from boxing and went to set up a new life in Italy.

So that's how he finished he was. If he'd have gotten the rematch, he would have fought on.


So the only person around here who's in denial, is YOU.


What difference does it make if Floyd has 'better numbers'?

Do you know how ******ed that is?


STATISTICS DON'T ALLOW FOR CIRCUMSTANCES!


It wouldn't matter if Floyd was 70-0, because he hasn't fought the calibre of guys that Ray fought.


Get this into your head:

FLOYD HAS NEVER BEATEN AN ATG FIGHTER, WHILE THEY WERE PRIME.


That fact, trumps whatever it says on BoxRec.


FLOYD HASN'T GOT ONE WIN THAT STACKS UP TO RAY'S BEST WINS.


THAT'S A FACT!


You can't even deny that, because you've inadvertently backed yourself into a corner, even trying to argue against your own logic.


It's this simple:

You don't rate the Hagler win for Ray, because Marvin was past his best.


Which means that you can't claim Floyd's wins over Oscar, Shane and Cotto etc as great.

So take them from Floyd's resume, and see what you're left with.


What you're left with, is Corrales, Castillo, Alvarez and Hatton etc.


Which to anyone with an ounce of knowledge, knows that they don't stack up to Benitez, Duran and Hearns.


So keep looking at BoxRec if it makes you feel warm.


Because the rest of us know that Floyd isn't as good as what Ray was, he'd never have signed to take the fight, and he hasn't got the better wins.


Ray was superior to Floyd, he has a superior resume, and nothing you type on here, will ever change either of those facts.


:good