Rank these bruisers, all prime

Vitali Klitschko
Baer Brothers
Wladimir Klitschko
Liston Brothers
Lewis Brothers
Foreman Brothers

 

I do not know why some of these mean tough guys would not fight bare knuckle if there was a reason too.

And Seamus you may be using humor to dry or me too obtuse to get, with all the doubling/brothering going on.

 

I doubt that anybody yould dominate that lot.

I guess that sonny Liston is the best of the bunch on paper, but his resolve faded rapidly once the title was in his hands.

Lewis and Wlad were the most consistent, and that would very likley alow them to outlast the others.

 

Liston prety much had everything, except the right mindset.

He could punch, he could box, he could take a punch, he was a brilliant ring general and strategist.

We should have seen more from him.

 

Brilliant? I would like to hear more about that. And he did not have great speed...

 

Watch Liston in with pretty much any opponent, and whatever his opponent does, his response seems to already be set up for it. He has an uncanny ability to anticipate what his opponent is going to do, and always seems to control the nature of the fight, so that it is the type of fight he wants. He is an instinctive fighter, but always seems to have a smart fight plan, for the style of the guy he is up against.

I will grant you that his hand speed wasn’t the best, but it wasn’t exactly like Benny Lynch pushing Tony Galento on a wheelbarrow either!

 

Outside of Patterson Liston's most impressive wins against current world rated fighters is Roy Harris and zora folley. That's it. The machen win showed me he was a great fighter with pace and a well rounded skill set but it was not so mind blowing as the Harris and Patterson fights were on film but they were blowouts. Anything else he did was expected of a good fighter. There is not much evidence of how Sonny coped against world class resistance outside of the first clay fight where he had already declined from his 1960 peak. If we are to measure Sonny against the others we just need so much more to go on.

I would like to think Sonny could beat up Lennox Lewis and the Klits but those guys will be hitting him back and they were all bigger than Floyd Patterson. 1960 Liston was better than George Foreman. 1972-74 George was far too easy to hit and Sonny was not going to freeze up like Ken Norton did or be as wide open as the faded Frazier was.

I am reluctant to put Lewis ahead of the bunch. I would love to put Liston over him because potentially he was the better fighter altogether, we just did not see enough of prime Liston in world class fights. Foreman was never quite the finished article to put your house on him against a Prime ATG.

I put Wlad at the bottom. Then george and max baer, then Sonny, then vitali then Lewis.

 

I don't think a blow out is a lucky win, I just think it is difficult to see it as a real test of a fighters full potential. Marciano had a blow out against Walcott, it dosnt mean much. One guy got going quicker and the other did not get started. All champs had ow outs but there was more to go on.

We need something between the two don't we?

I like the machen win. It shows more of Liston. He outboxed Eddie so this is a good example of what Liston had against a fast moving boxer. Now we need an example of him against another world class fighter who took him into a deeper struggle with two way exchanges before we can say be beats up a Lennox Lewis.

 

Hey I put Sonny above Foreman, above Baer, above wlad. There's no pleasing you is there?

 

Ok, I shall address each point.

I think I used a direct Angelo Dundee quote that time. He said not to put too much faith in a one round blow out because a lot of one round fights could go the other way had the loser warmed up later.

ok, on reflection that is harsh. In a boxing sense a blow out merchant puts on a boxing display and still has his own way, in some respects that could be considered mind blowing but the bone of irritation here is the "having his own way"part. The example I am wanting is Liston coming out on top after not having his own way...like the Wiliams fight but over a better fighter like say Doug jones or the folley fight seems to have been. I need to have seen it.

Ok Tyson blew Spinks out and Joe Louis blew schmeling out and Lewis blew Golota out. They were impressive key wins but we learned more about them from other fights. Other fights (agaibst great fighters) showed what they had when the chips were down.

They can say it of course they can. They are as entitled as the rest of us. I think in this group Liston beats all but vitali and Lennox,, though I would actually want Sonny to punch Lennox's lights out.