Is it fair to say now that Calzaghe's win over Hopkins trumps any win Mayeather has?

Is it fair to say now that Calzaghe's win over Hopkins trumps any win Mayeather has?

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.

Joe's

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been ESB's no. 1 troll subject though. Must be a sign of the times. If it was emanating from the US one would bet it was a Fox News or Rush Limbaugh piece to prop the base in desperate need of a like-kind hero against the evil minority athletes. As it comes from the UK then the rationale is also pretty apparent.

I own a home in Vegas and was ringside at the T&M. I am reluctantly okay with giving Calz the narrowest margin but it could have EASILY and should have been a draw. Joe was TERRIBLE. Looked like an inferior athlete (to Hopkins) who only threw more punches due to a seven year age advantage BUT landed virtually NOTHING clean. Don't need to justify the absurd punch stats reported later - I was there to know Joe couldn't figure anything out, couldn't time any feints, and fell to just swinging without pause. That would never have worked against a prime athlete and barely edged it against a really old one. His handspeed was rather pedestrian (i.e., the same as a 43 year old Hopkins) and his movement and reflexes unimpressive. He's very lucky to have faced a very poor version of Hopkins on the night.

I've known FMJ for a long time not as friends but because of proximity (worked out in the same gym for a decade, played basketball together, and have had the same tech at the Fletcher Jones Mercedes dealership for about fifteen years now so I occasionally run into him waiting for service). I've seen Floyd up close to judge his quickness, played ball w/him to see his reaction speed, and lifted next to him to know his strength & work ethic. But, as a fighter FMJ is levels about Calzaghe in all ring respects. Those are two names that should never ever be in the same conversation. Joe doesn't punch well and has poor defense. Floyd is very crafty offensively, cat quick, and has top notch defensive impulses. For me, Calz is a

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fighter but suffers from the same deficiencies of most white fighters - I've never seen a

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of great boxing skill/technique with great athleticism in a white fighter. Sort of like a unicorn - some say they have existed but I've been watching boxing live since the Fight Of The Century and have never seen even ONE to date.

When it comes to extraordinary we've been waiting and hoping for one to appear. It is evident that the closest is gonna be from some mixed marriage (e.g. Ward). Outside of that, there is always some deficiency (good power but no speed, some speed but no power, good power but minimal athleticism, etc., etc.).

It's like the 100m. You can take the 2,000 best times in recorded history and you can't find a white guy anywhere except a couple at the very bottom. I'm American though my father is Welsh and born in London. So, no racism - just reality. I like Joe (the best white fighter in good while - as far as that goes - but at least he is levels better than Jerry and Mike Quarry who we used to go watch fight in California in my youth) and I would want to see him fight all the greats in their prime. If any white fighter could get the occasional win it could be him. But, I just don't see him winning too many of those fights. Simply not diverse, multifaceted, or innately gifted enough. But ESB's Calz craze - sort of a "Beckhamish" young boy idolisation is undeniably a strong one considering the frequency in which his name is matched against past greats. A lot of nationalistic pride and the need for a hero in some.

Seriously, outside of the many, many troll posts, when I read opinions (from non-pro boxers) that differ so far from mine the final criteria I use is to ask the poster to show

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talent (where did you play and at what level (e.g., which university (USC) - which school, which years (mid-80s), which division, what sports (baseball/track) so I don't think that the person simply can't have a basis for judging athleticism and that's why the opinion is so off - except the poster

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an avid and accomplished troll / or decade long ESB personage :yep - and that includes at least half the "classic" forum too).

But if you have any athletic talent and you were ringside that night you'd be very clear that - while both were just dire - if you were simply looking for the best qualities and attributes in both and identifying what used to be in those fighter's in their primes the better pure athlete in that ring was 43 years old (even after seeing that dismal performance - as that is what happens periodically (then regularly) in old athletes). The more skilled technician was

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the 43 year old. The more active combatant was the 36 year old. Still, seven years is a lot.

In their primes, one gets hit with punches he doesn't see coming, is hurt, runs into another few, and is stopped.


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Floyd has picked carefully as he has moved up in weight BUT over time he was managed to thrive in many, many fights now without a loss all after having reached the apex in lower weight divisions. There is no comparison between that and fighting two old fighters at LHW and running into retirement. There was really no winner in the Calz/BHOP fight. Calz' defeat of RJJ is meaningless unless you are an advocate for Denis Lebedev and Danny Green. So, essentially, Calz doesn't have any wins at LHW. Mayweather's "second career" at WW and JMM will always be a bit calculated as he is simply not a big WW with optimal size/height for the weight class. If he had remained at JWW instead of searching for bigger challenges you can imagine how that would have went.

 

I haven't had the time or patience to reread this entire thread so I don't know if someone has already mentioned it but didn't Chad Dawson beat Hopkins after Calzaghe did it and did it far more comfortably? Does that mean that Dawson also looks greater with every win that the ancient Hopkins achieves or does that only apply to Calzaghe?

 

If you compare only that win its damn close, but if you compare full record, who beat better fighters its actually funny to see difference in class of Joes opponents vs Floyd opponents, not comparable at all Floyd is light years ahead.

 

Hopkins was old, but Hopkins has still gone to have success and is deff a modern day great, I personally have Hopkins above mayweather regardless of the record, just because he has been in harder fights.

 

Quote my whole post, one win its close whole record its funny to even think of comparing them, FLoyd light years ahead.

 

I would never rate a prime Kessler above marquez, and I think canelo will possibly achieve the same before his career ends, but I agree that Hopkins (even at 40) is probably a bigger scalp than Floyd has ever had

 

No because Calzaghe didn't legitimately win. He was hitting air, the back of the head, and getting countered for at least 6 rounds. with the knockdown and the fact that Hopkins was never hit with a meaningful shot there is no way Calzaghe won. His own father said so prior to round 12.

but yes, the 42 year old Hopkins is better than any opponent on Floyd's record.

if Calzaghe had won however, the fact that none of his other wins are notable, aside from a solid but far from great Kessler, he still wouldn't be close to great, and still is not and never will be

 

It's only fair to say it if you believe that Hopkins's win over Roy Jones in their second fight was actually relevant to Hopkins's legacy.
Otherwise Calzaghe's win narrow win over Hopkins is just as good as Spike's win over Ali.

 

mayweather may be somewhat cowardly now and again in that he waited till someone was 30simething to fight them, but he has never waited till someone is 40something before fighting them. that is a different level of cowardzaghiness.

 

Exactly! Mayweather pisses all over Calzaghe in terms of opposition and ability.