Ruslan Provodnikov vs. Chris Algieri & Demetrius Andrade vs. Brian Rose RBR

I can't argue with this, and wonder about it myself, the role power plays or should play when scoring. It is one reason I like to look at the quality of the punch, not just the power behind it. If a guy is significantly larger and stronger, should he get the built in leg up because he is more apt to hurt his opponent? Even when his opponent is landing more flush punches but just lacks that Randall Bailey or Provo power? Not to say only volume should be scored, but the amount of solidly landed, quality punches definitely weighs in.

 

You must really mean it.

You typed that really big.

 

how are people giving algieri the last two rounds, i recorded it and have to watch it again but algieri was one eyed willy in the last 2 rounds and was getting tagged by prov. i gave the last 2 rounds 2 ruslan.

 

Using that same logic we should all ignore beautiful women and be just as thrilled to stick our dicks inside hideous obese monsters. People aren't equal and a boxing ring is no place for affirmative action. Based on what you wrote i think rhythmic gymnastics would be a better sport for you to watch, Prizefighting is about damage.

Good breakdown it's a balancing act but when looking at the punch stat totals i fail to see how the margin of quantity which was rather slim is enough to overtake the quality in this fight. Thrown and landed was rather close but the quality and meaningful shots aren't.

Total
Provodnikov 205 of 776, 26%
Algieri 288 of 993, 29%

 

A boxing ring is actually the perfect place for "affirmative action" as you call it. Everything that makes up the contest is striving for as much equality as possible (fighters wear the same size gloves, fight in separated weight divisions for balance, etc). That is actually the point of all sports, (sports have rules, so as to create an environment where SKILL and athletic pursuits are the ultimate goal.) Sports are great because it often times isn't about the biggest, stongest, fastest guy out there because there are rules and a structure in place to create equality for the sake of pure competition.

 

You're talking about punishing one boxers attribute (power) by discounting it which also happens to be the single most important judging criteria in prizefighting (damage) because the other guy doesn't have it. At the same time you have no problem failing to do the same for a guy like Algieri who is taller, longer, faster all of which benefits him and is as god given as power. You're a hypocrite trying to bend rules to favor whatever you want.

Who cares if a women can't do 8 pullups or lift 50lbs we want them in artillery units anyways. Upperbody strength isn't important, affirmative actions and the deluded notion of false equality is.

 

So, based on your own criteria here, who used their attributes better? Algieri (speed, height, length) or Provodnikov (power). If what you are trying to say is Provodnikov (the heavy favorite) only had one true advantage and that was power, did he use his one attribute successfully to the point of winning the fight? It sounds like you are trying to make a case that Algieri won, because he definitely showed more than just power (and more consistently, to add).

And I'm not punishing fighters for having power, I'm saying that it should not be as large a criteria as it comes to scoring, especially if it is a close fight and you have one guy who lands more consistently with occasional head snapping punches. I'm calling for balance, you aren't (balance because this opinion is unpopular now, but was once not so much decades ago). Boxers who lack power have to win, someway somehow.

 

We haven't even entered into the other scoring criteria as of yet. Ring generalship, effective aggression and defense.

Obviously aggression goes to Provo, and defense to Algieri.

Ring generalship. I'd probably have to give that to Algieri based on the fact that he made Provo fight his fight more than the other way around.

The scoring is really so damned subjective. And in a fight like this where one guy's style is diametrically opposed to his opponent, it really becomes what your looking for and what you actually see. I can see why this fight goes either way.

 

What a pleasant surprise that Provodnikov match was. Respect to both guys. I never liked Andrade but he's kind of growing on me. Not enough interviewing time on the HBO broadcast for me though.

 

My score too. But I have no problem with the decision either. So many close rounds in this. Really well matched. I thought they were risking ruining Algieri on this kind of step up. No idea if his chin could take it at this level .He really rose to the occasion. Proud of this guy even though I scored it narrowly against him.

 

Part of "effective punching" is power. It's about landing clean and damaging punches. You have to score the guy who's doing damage.

Part of ring generalship is controlling the real estate. Algeri took three steps for every one that Provo took. Ruslan was the one coming forward and making the fight.

You also gotta TAKE the champs belt that he won fair and square. That didn't happen. Outperforming expectations is not enough.

I also don't believe you can't take a fight with only the jab. It's why sturm never beat DLH in my eyes.

 

There was only a 3% difference in connects so how does Algieri have a clear edge in defense? Aggression is all Provodnikov and ring generalship is arguable as i tend to agree with what the poster above me said.

The majority of the time i'd give the ring generalship edge to Ruslan. Algieri was simply trying to get away most time not dictating when they engaged or where they went. He was constantly getting put against the ropes or cornered and trying to get off them, if he could have avoided that he would of and Ruslan was obviously making the fight with that generalship and aggression.

 

This was really Ruslan's fault, he blew this fight, Algieri did not win it. Algieri did not do anything special, by the 9th rd, he was dead tired, his punches were very weak and he kept retreating to the ropes. Ruslan on the other hand looked the same as when he fought Herrera. It is as if he did not learn a thing from Roach or he simply ignored Roach's instruction. He started off good, going to head and body, but by the 8th rd. he stopped going to the body, he never jabbed as Roach asked him to, never let loose the uppercut as Roach begged him too do. Roach told him he needed a ko, but he went out in the 2th with no desire or heart of a champion and he let Algieri just move around throwing punches with nothing on them in the 12th (the last 4 rds. too). Ruslan simply went head hunting after the 7th rd even then he was just throwing hooks over the head of Algieri. How he can throw hooks over Algieri's head is beyond me considering Algieri is 5 " taller. Ruslan has no ability to adjust so instead of ad******g he gives up.

This just simply shows Ruslan has 0 ability to overcome, adapt, and find a way to win like a champion would do. He simply followed Algieri around after the 7th rd, not throwing much, he looked hypnotized, just starring at Algieri. It was a very poor performance by Ruslan, and no it was not a coming out party for Algieri. He made many mistakes, staying on the ropes for example. Ruslan blew this fight all because he refused to learn and apply what he has been taught. I was very angry with his performance. That is the danger of building up the hype surrounding a fighter, Ruslan showed he is not deserving of such hype. Even though I am being hard on Ruslan I still thought he won, I had it 6 rds. each, Algieri winning the last 5 rds. but Ruslan 10-7 rd 1st rd. should of won him the fight. It just goes to show you if you are Russian from Siberia fighting against a blue eyed American from NY and fighting in NY you need to knock him out to win otherwise the blue-eyed American will get the decision.

As for Algieri I though he was ready for the taking from the 9th rd on. He looked exhausted and his punches had nothing on them, his jab went from a quick good jab from the beginning of the fight to a half hearted half extended arm punch from the 9th through rd 12. He was on the ropes plenty, and he was tired enough to where a real champion should of been able to take advantage, throw it into 6th gear and ko'd him. Believe me Algieri had nothing left even so Ruslan did absolutely nothing to capitalize on it. Algieri will lose in his 1st defense that is if he fights a decent top 10 guy. By the way Algieri's corner was down right obnoxious. Using the term "creep" or "creepin" in just about every sentence. I was wondering if 1 of the jersey shore cast members was his trainer. I am surprised he and his team did not have orange faces.

 

Ruslan fell in love with his left hook early and began ****ing his left and right slightly before lunging in with predictable left hooks and overhand rights. Algieri would move, block a couple and pivot or pivot, move and throw as Ruslan tried to set his feet. Algieri won inside and outside, Ruslan could not find uppercuts nor superior bodywork to Algieri (outside of one crumpling bodyshot in the mid/late rounds and in the first round). I think Algieri worked his every punch, every angle, every style to win this. He was moving and, despite not carrying a lot of power, landing very cleanly and stopping Ruslan with enough consistency to move and be out of danger.

His guard was very tight and he caught the vast majority of punches he didn't avoid. To me, this was a clear cut boxing lesson. Provo had his moments, but as the fight wore on, he became discouraged, desperate and unraveled technically. He forgot that the reason the first round happened is because of his footwork, body shots, and movement. Algieri would return fire on Provo every time Provo would land, then move and pepper him with shots to win the exchanges clearly in my mind. Despite not much having power, Algieri threw with authority and mentally beat Provodnikov, who seemed to be 'getting work' early on, but in reality had just been out-thought and had mostly given up.

I had Provo winning 1,2 (close) ,7 (close). There were a few close rounds, but regardless of scores, the totality of the fight shows a boxing lesson. What is 'better power' worth if Algieri wasn't visibly shaken by Provodnikov's punches? Algieri was shaken badly with a body shot and a left hook after the first round, that was it. Provodnikov's head was snapping back, Algieri's shots were slamming into Provodnikov and stopping his advancement--is that not effective offense? Is it more effective than a shot that *looks* more damaging thrown by Provodnikov but does not stop Algieri's gameplan? Provodnikov only had plan A, Algieri dealt with it and made him adjust, he couldn't.

Just my $.02

 

Mate I am sorry but that is one of the a very, very flawed way of thinking. Yes power is largely a natural thing but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be scored because believe mean any boxer at that level needs a lot of natural ability as well as the expierience and dedication if they want to compete.

If two boxers land a similar amount of shots the one landing the harder ones wins the round. All areas like power, speed, punch resistance, stamina, co-ordination etc. can all be improved but only as much as your individual genetics will allow.