Ingemar Johansen vs Cleveland Williams

Yes, but basically to pretty good fighters. Bygraves and Erskine were British Empire champions.

I wouldn't want to overplay Cooper, but he was a young fighter on the way up, already had wins over London and Bygraves, and would be a ranked heavyweight seven times in the future.

He is being compared to Miteff and Daniels.

Miteff as basically at the end of the road, and would lose 5 of 7 that year, including a KO defeat to someone named Ray Batey.

Daniels came into the first Williams fight at 18-1 having lost only to Ali and might have looked like a comer, but he was to go on to a 2-14-1 run, becoming something less than a trial horse.

I can't see rating these fellows above Cooper, even granting that Cooper hadn't gotten his legs under him yet in 1957.

 

Agreed. If Cooper was nobody when ingo beat him then Terrell was nobody when Williams beat him. I can live with that.
This still leaves the chilling knock outs of Patterson and machen on ingo's resume who had never been knocked out before. As well as solid Euro wins over a decent bygraves, Franco cavicchi, London, Erskine, and neuhaus that are possibly superior wins than Daniels and miteff on Williams greatest hits list of two.

 

Terrell had already lost fights to bethea and twice to johny Gray. Williams was Ernie's first name opponent. Perhaps Cooper had been matched harder? I think Gray and bethea were bellow the standard of the men beating Cooper. At least Henry had already beat London and bygraves by that stage. Who had Terrell beat before losing to Williams?

 

That's not why I am undermining Williams. I am pointing out things have to stack up better for Williams before he is given a chance at knocking out ingo. Personally I think it would be an entertaining fight, Williams was game enough to at least get up a few times.. but to actually warrant a chance at ingo he needs to be better than 0-4-1 against men currently regarded as world class if he's going against ingo who was 2-2 against fighters rated #1 and above.

 

It doesn't matter what you think. The fact is Alex Miteff was ranked # 7 in the world when he fought Cleveland Williams.



"Cleveland (Big Cat) Williams, who shattered the title hopes of 7th ranked Alex Miteff with a 5th round TKO, set up a howl today for a shot at champion Floyd Patterson. If Williams ever looked as though he deserved a shot at the title, it was Tuesday night. He took command of the fight from Miteff from the start, opened a bad cut over his left eye in the 2nd, floored him for eight counts in the 3rd and 4th, and was beating him badly when referee Ernie Taylor mercifully ended it 1:32 deep into the 5th." -United Press International


After this bout, Texas Boxing Enterprises, the promoter of the bout, sent Floyd Patterson an offer of $100,000 or an option of 40% of the gate to meet Cleveland Williams.

 

In the overall scheme of things Ingo's resumee is slight especially if we are talking top 30 or so. Very slight in fact.
Williams resunee is non existant if we are talking top 100, I'm sure a few hundred fighters would match the Machen draw and the Terrell win.
Ingo beat Floyd and Machen brutally and these wins are out of Williams stratosphere, not even close.
Could Williams win, sure-is it likely? I don't think so.

 

With this lot;
26-50

Baer M
Byrd
Chagaev
Corbett
Ellis
Folley
Godfrey
Ibeabuchi
Jackson P
Jeannette
Johansson
Johnson H
Lyle
Machen
McVea
Moore
Patterson
Povetkin
Quarry
Spinks M
Sullivan
Terrell
Tubbs
Witherspoon
Young

Probably around 40ith. Like the fact that he never fought a fighter with a losing record-the only top heavyweight to do that, also beat very fighter he fought, but very poor longevity and a limited list of quality opponents. Feel he loses out by been a European at a time when nearly all the top guys were American.
Then their is my subjectivity, I think he was a very savvy fighter and I rate that right hand up there with anybodies.

 

George Chuvalo took his rating. Why would miteff remain #7 within a year he lost so many times?

why would Patterson fight Williams over Liston??

 

Once again, Alex Miteff was ranked # 7 in the world when he fought Cleveland Williams. This is a FACT. Deal with it.