Head to Head Marciano against anyone under 190lb

His Mother said he was two years older than he claimed.He had just kod the middle weight champion Olson. . Of those you mentioned two were light heavies ,and one was a middleweight having his first fight at Lhvy.

Baker had won one of his last three fights ,over journeyman Charley Williams, been kod in 1rd by Satterfield. and dropped a U dec to Henry in the other two..
The Maxim fight was for Moore's lhvy crown.
As was the Johnson fight.

Whitehurst had beaten no one of any note.
So that's 6 fights only three against heavyweights, one of whom was a journeyman , and one had won only one of his last three fights .
I didn't say he was a chump, just an aging light heavyweight, which is undeniably correct.

 

There are three schools of thought regarding Marciano.
1)He should change nothing and he'd be a dominant champion in any era.
2)If he were alive today he'd be slightly heavier and have a career like David Tua, and by inference Dempsey would maybe have the career of Ray Mercer, and Joe Frazier would be Ruslan Chagaev.
3)He wouldn't even be a heavyweight, but would be an admirable cruiser.

The latter two seem more likely to me. If assumption #2 is correct, then like Tua Marciano is a top contender but never the champion and gets beat by all the top guys: Ibeabuchi, Lewis, probably Tyson and Holyfield if he ever faces them and even gets outmaneuvered by the more skilled Chris Byrd.

If assumption #3 is correct, then he's just a cruiserweight, and power doesn't travel up divisions that well. Anyone you want to look at, all the great punchers when they moved up a division their KO percentage went down. Langford and Walker were downright murderous at middleweight but just 30 pounds up from that is a different story. Great power becomes average power; so as strong as Dempsey or Marciano were, despite their fearsome reputations they probably didn't hit harder than your average 220 lb guy. Now, everybody has that kind of punching power or better in the heavyweight division and he'd be using it on guys who can take it.


Guys who probably hit harder:
Vitali and Wlad Klitschko, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, George Foreman, Max Baer, Joe Louis, Mike Tyson, Gerry Cooney, Gerrie Coetzee, Samuel Peter, Ike Ibeabuchi, Harry Wills, Tommy Morrison, Sonny Liston, etc.

Guys who are more durable:
Vitali Klitschko, Muhammad Ali, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, Joe Louis, Oliver McCall, George Chuvalo, Tex Cobb, Mariusz Wach, and probably dozens more. Guys who got knocked out multiple times by the superior firepower of the 70s,80s, and 90s probably would never be off their feet in Marciano's time.

Guys who had more skill and technique:
Klitschkos, Louis, Ali, Holmes, Norton, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson, Tucker, Witherspoon, Page, Dokes, Haye, Thomas, Moorer, Ibeabuchi, Byrd, Quarry, Ellis, Patterson, Schmeling, Charles, Tunney

Guys who are faster:
Ali, Holyfield, Louis, Holmes, Tyson, Patterson, Charles,...

There's just all kinds of ways to beat this guy. The only reason I can see for him remaining unbeaten in his own time is luck to be born at just the right time when the division was at an all time low. He got luckier than Miguel Cotto fighting Sergio Martinez. He got four Martinez' in his time and he didn't even have to cherry pick like Mayweather.

 

I could potentially see Marciano being out pointed by a number of fighters at 190 or lighter if they could survive the distance. Good boxers like James Toney, Roy Jones Jr, Michael Spinks, Billy Conn, Evander Holyfield, Michael Moorer etc I think would all have a chance to win decision`s against Marciano but I would favor the Rock against any of them especially in a 15 round fight. Marciano may look to lack technique and in some ways he does but he makes his awkwardness work for him. He was so damn strong and well conditioned and got tremendous leverage into his punches which he would land all over the body leading to his opponents eventually breaking down. Its hard for me to imagine any fighters under 190 lbs not wearing out in the later rounds from Marciano`s relentless assault especially a 15 round fight.

 

Always providing he doesnt get stopped on cuts long before that.:think

 

Understood and I have argued all the above from that side of the fence. But we are talking sub 190 here so light heavies or blown up light heavies are very much in the discussion. Hell, earlier people were mentioning Roy Jones and Ward.

 

Almost his whole career he fought guys who were bigger, faster and supposedly more skilled. How did that work out for them? You can make all the categories you want. In the end, the only category that counts is effectiveness. I think he did alright in that regards.

Did the division improve after him? Was Patterson a better champion, a better fighter, than Marciano? Were Patterson's opponents better than Layne, Walcott, Charles and LaStarza? I would even throw Liston's opponents into this question.

 

S, all I am saying is that out of the 6 last opponents of Moore you mentioned, three were not heavyweights as they were then classified.If Marciano had kod Olson ,who weiighed 170 lbs for the Moore fight everyone would have said mismatch.

 

Jack would have to be wary of Marciano's short right; he wasn't a sucker but it was the punch he was most open to. Rocky would have to try and ride out the early storm, though I'm not so sure he could.

If Dempsey isn't able to find the 'off' switch he can always rely on making a mess of Rocky's face. Jack's punches were at once slashing and powerful. He'd shorten his own right, bull forward on light feet and start slamming home the left. The Firpo fight showed how he could hold off a bigger man and repeat shots like a semi-automatic. A very defensive Tommy Gibbons managed to tuck up well, mainly to survive. Rocky would not be so cute.

Considering Dempsey's blistering start, and the fact both his stamina and staying power are a little underrated, I'd have to side with him to finish matters within seven.

 

49-0...43 KO's...Champ from Sept.1952-April 1956...'nuff said...

 

Bob Baker had won just one of his last three fights, being blitzed in one round by Satterfield and unanimously outpointed by Henry his one win was over a nobody.Three months prior to the Moore fight he lost to27-13-2 Bill Gilliam . I don't think Baker was even in the top 10 when Moore beat him they fought in March 1954 and Baker was not rated at the end of 53
Charles was not the number one contender, he had just lost Valdes. Johnson was unrated at Heavy.

 

I noted this earlier but came to a different conclusion.

He fought like a rank amateur for much of the Firpo fight. If he got into that mode with Marciano his head would be in the fifth row. He just simply isn't going to win a firefight with Marciano. Gibbons wasn't near as strong or powerful as Marciano. Gibbons also was not over impressed with Dempsey's power. Cuteness would not win Marciano the day. Better, more sustained firepower would.

Not saying it is out of the realm of possibility, but I would lay my money on Marciano. Dempsey was cold ****ed in one, started fading against an aged dirigible in Willard, wobbled by Carpentier, knocked out of the ring by an amateur in Firpo and soundly outboxed by Sharkey. His power generally saved the day. But when he falls back on that he will playing into Marciano's hands.

 

Marciano made 6 defences, 3 were against men lighter and one of the other 3,[****ell,] was carrying his extra around his middle. Marciano's 2 previous fights before shooting for the title were against men lighter than himself.Seventeen of his victories were over lighter men, and his last three defences were over ex lightheavyweights.

 

One can speculate about his chances against the big heavies of today, but at 190 or under he is a H2H monster, undeniably. Especially over 15 rounds, where his stamina and workrate came heavily into play.

I'm not saying he is unbeatable, but he was extremely hard to beat at this weight limit, over 15.

I think a 190-pound Evander would be a great natural matchup for Rocky. It would be interesting to see how the heavyweight (193lb.) Roy Jones fares as well. It's said that his actual weight was a little below the 193 lbs. he weighed for Ruiz, so I guess he qualifies.

Qawi and Michael Spinks would be interesting fights too.

In all honesty though, I would not make anyone a favourite over Rocky at the sub-190 lb. mark.

 

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