Head to Head Marciano against anyone under 190lb

Power is the last thing to go, but reflexes and legs are the first and without those you can't deliver the power.

 

Yes, the heavyweight champion at arguably the apex of the sport's popularity was a bum. Way to gain credence to your argument.

 

Moore never had a 45 fight win streak.

He had a 21 fight win streak heading into the Marciano fight that nearly spanned 4 years. In this run he beat noteworthy HWs Whitehurst, Slade, Baker, Henry, Dunlap, and Valdez.

Only 8 of these fights were at LHW. 3 against Maxim and 2 against Johnson in this stretch. It should be noted that both Johnson and Maxim have a great deal of experience and success at HW.

Dunlap, Valdez, Baker, and Henry were regarded as top 5 HWs by RING magazine in the year end issues after Moore beat them. Valdez was #1 when Archie Moore beat him.

Baker had only been stopped by Henry and Satterfield prior to Moore. In his next 32 fights he would not be stopped again in his career, proving to be very durable. He would peak as the #1 contender in 1954 right after Moore beat him, and collect wins over Baski, Layne, Valdez, Wallace, Holman, and future top contender Chuvalo. In losing efforts he went the distance with Tommy Jackson, Roy Harris, Machen, DeJohn, and Hunter.

 

That's two lightheavyweights, and one middleweight.and what did Bivins weigh? One hundred and eighty, he was a lhvy really.
If Wlad had beaten those four, would it have been a great resume?

Moore fought about 65 heavyweights around a dozen of them were fat lightheavies.

Moore's resume at heavyweight is not bad, but neither is it anything special.

 

Bivins was a HW. Just because you fought at LHW earlier in your career doesn't make you a career LHW. He had been rated as a top HW since 1942.

If I'm not mistaken, 1943 was the last time he ever came in under 175? Most of his listed weights seem to be 185-190+ at this point, a handful of dips sub 180. RING dropped him from the LHW listings in 1943 as well.

 

If that's for me don't bother.

 

This is just getting absurd.

Moore's HW resume is excellent.

 

Bull****. Bivins weighed 179 and 178 for his next 2 fights after Moore,this was 1948.As late as 1951 he scaled 177 for Henry.Box rec rates him as a LHVY Where you categorize him I couldn't care less.
You accused me of something I wasn't guilty of on another thread and I've a long memory.

I dont want to engage with you so save it for those who do.

 

Dempsey was probably dismissive of Firpo. 6'2" and straight-up, the Mauler figured he could take his head off with a hook but overreached and got decked from the big man's first punch; this changed the complexion of the fight considerably. Still, there was some fine technique (on the champion's behalf) as well as splendid powers of recovery on show.

Against Marciano, low and slippery, Dempsey would approach him more like he did Gibbons, on his toes and measured. However, once Rocky obliged hostilities Dempsey would be able to get more leverage on his punches, he's going to get there first and they're going to come from both sides.

A Rocky win wouldn't surprise me, his blend of power, stamina and intuitive aggression could save the day, even against a George Foreman, but I believe Dempsey not only holds key advantages in this slugfest but is often (unjustly) viewed as something of a firework when he too could make his presence felt in the later rounds.

 

In this discussion, the weight issue is less relevant as we are capping the limit at 190. So, the fact that Marciano or Moore were beating top talent weighing 180 is not of major concern. Conversely, what Holyfield did above 190 is also not a factor. It seems folks are drifting from these parameters.

 

Well reasoned. I don't have to entirely agree with it to respect it.

 

Bulltrue. Those are the few odd dips below 180. He was still a HW btw at those.

The big Moore win often cited was in 45. In 1944, he weighed 191 in the second Murray fight. In 1946 he weighs 186 against Billy Smith, 192 againts Walcott, 190 against Murray, and 186 against Charles. And in 1952 he was over 180 again. Those are the ones I can see without being logged into boxrec. Quite a few 185-190+.

So? He never fought at LHW after 1943. And even prior to that was regularly bouncing back and forth between divisons. He came in as a HW with when he knocked out Moore, I believe.

I will log into boxrec tommorrow to confirm these weights.

You were guilty. You said MOST of Moore's opponents in the 50s were LHWs and MWs. This was wrong. Now you are claiming most of them as fat LHWs, which is going from the realm of wrong to absurd. Who the hell on his HW resume is supposed to be a fat LHW?

 

Great post Ted. I yield to no one in my admiration for Marciano since the time I saw Rocky obliterate Carmine Vingo at MSG. in 1949. But I go
along with the polled sportswriters who saw Dempsey and Marciano and
almost unanimously chose the much speedier Manassa Mauler to beat
Marciano who truly missed half his punches, whilst Dempsey was an
accurate deadly short puncher in the trenches...Style, style, style...
Today mainly on this forum ,Dempsey is rated just a step over Butterbean.
At his best Jack was a force of nature, and as tough as rawhide...

 

I'm not referring to this.