How did Liston, Clay, Patterson all miss out on Harold Johnson?

Liston Johnson was close to happening at one point.

 

Patterson actually beat more top 10 guys than Sonny fought. By like a big margin.

 

It was said in Philly that Johnson used to handle Liston easily in sparring. Sonny had trouble with defensive type guys who he couldn't hit easily with the jab. Patterson's manager actually offered Johnson good money to take a fight with Liston to "get him out of the way" before he took Floyd's title, but Johnson refused saying that he didn't want to be used that way.

 

Bill please! Harold was a great fighter but was smaller than Floyd; he could have never beaten him. Obviously you have some sort of ax to grind against anyone who considers Floyd a great fighter. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

And that would be the Ezzard that continued when he should have retired long before? As good as Johnson was, he doesn't belong in the same ballpark as a prime LH Ezz.

 

Harold, gave an interview to boxing news editor trix dixon many years ago. I, still have the article in my archives too. I will get to the bottom of this!!

 

Johnson was not a guy you wanted to fight. He was hard to look good against. He was another guy that Archie made possible to avoid but look at who he beat

Eddie Machen
Doug Jones
Billy Gilliam (who beat Valdes)
Nino Valdes
Howard King
Ezzard Charles(close nod)
Archie Moore
Bert Whitehurst
Wayne Bethea
Marty Marshall
Clarence Henry
Bob Satterfield
Arturo Gody
Elkin Brothers
Jimmy Bivins

seems like a guy you would like to avoid

 

I don't resent anyone thinking Patterson was a great fighter, I just don't agree with them.

 

"he could never have beaten him"

Floyd fought in the low 180's in the 1950's. Not that different from Johnson. Johnson weighed 182, I think, for Machen in 1961. Patterson weighed 182 for Johansson in 1959.

I think Johnson is obviously a very gifted fighter. I would favor Patterson off his better performance against Moore,

but saying Johnson "could have never beaten him" is going way too far. Johnson was talented enough to have a chance against anyone close to him in size.

 

I agree ed but it would have to be a 52-55 Patterson (a 17-19 yr. old emerging Floyd?) Are you going to diss Clay for not fighting Eddie Machen 62-63? Each camp knew who to avoid before their fighter was molded into the shape and with the experience they wanted.

 

"it would have to be a 52-55 Patterson (a 17-19 yr. old emerging Floyd?)"

I disagree. Johnson was good enough to have a chance against any version of Floyd. Even in the sixties when in his own mid-thirties, Johnson was beating Machen and Jones.

I favor Patterson, but this is not some sort of "out" fight.

 

I'm not taking anything away from Harold's talents but Eddie (not far removed from his mental problems was hot and cold at that point) and Jones was small enough to be worked around by Johnson.
Floyd was involved with the Sonny quinella at the time, it was all HW champ posturing; Harold simply didn't figure into that. You never mentioned a Johnson-Sonny 'elimanator' in the early 60's? Perhaps because Sonny would have sent the smaller Johnson onto '*****-street' in short order.
Respect your comments ed! :happy

 

"You never mentioned Johnson-Sonny in the early '60's?"

"You"

Well, I didn't, but actually there was plenty of talk of a Liston-Johnson fight in the boxing mags and yearbooks back then. The loss to Pastrano derailed any possible fight, and then Liston lost also.

*Just a point. There wasn't much of a size differential between Machen and Patterson, and Johnson had beaten men like Nino Valdes who were as big as Sonny.

 

Not a prime Charles but this was before Marciano. No one is so good that Harold Johnson doesn't belong in the same ballpark as them.

Edit: jowcol you're a knowledgeable guy but I think you're underestimating Johnson. He beat several plus 200 pound heavyweights including names like Arturo Godoy and a streaking Nino Valdez. That's not to mention several guys in the 190's.

 

Thanks Red! Sometimes I break out a couple of glasses of Merlot when my beloved wife works late (I love the Classic Forum) I know Harold was a great fighter but, as a Floyd nut-hugger, I'm always on the lookout for any anti-Patterson posts and you're surely not among those folks! Blessings!