Larry Holmes W 15 Carl Williams 1985

As for that version of Williams taking on Spinks...Williams would've beaten the crap outta him.

 

Very close fight.Interesting that Pacheco commented on Holmes "having a roll of fat around his waist.Wonder what he would have thought of the likes of Arreola ?

 

Williams? Oh he won easy with his jab. this was actually Larry's first loss unless you want to count the Witherspoon fight which is okay with me

As larry's wife said during the fight with Timmy "That's not Larry in there!"

as for Spinks, it really wasnt the upset the media made it out to be since Larry lost to Carl before losing to Mike. kind of like Camacho losing to Chavez after losing to ham N egger Greg Haugen.

In other words, he was damaged goods

Spinks was a poor champ at this weight. Maybe would be a good fight for Patterson or Johanson or Ezzard Charles or better yet, Tommy Burns

His defenses reeked. who the hell was Stefan Tangstad? The Tyson fight was a real wake up call for anyone who put their faith in Micheal Stinks

 

I was impressed by Williams, he was another guy that could handle the medium punchers well but the tipping point was when he fought a banger his chin did not hold up. I think he deserved the nod against Holmes he threw some beautiful combo's and used the jab well. Williams had 15-16 fights and was not really in with anyone but he beat Holmes IMO. In fairness you had to beat the Champ pretty badly back then, even favorites got the nod. Ali had a few close ones that could have-should have gone the other way-Norton-Young-etc.

Williams was not even on the radar of the best at the time but if it was not a title fight he should have gotten the nod

bare in mind the Michael Spinks was also considered a weak opponent (having never fought at heavyweight) he was the least of the challengers and an opponent designed to keep Holmes winning. I for one did not give him a chance in honesty but felt the other top 5-6 guys had a stylistic chance to beat him profoundly like Tyson did later

 

Haven't seen this fight since I watched it live on television all those years ago...I downloaded it off youtube and have watched the first three rounds so far. Got Williams sweeping the first three with that eye-popping jab.
He really did have a great jab, didn't he? Holmes landed some nice right hands, but you can see the frustration setting in a bit. Larry was almost never matched jab for jab, but Williams could do just that.

 

Finished watching the fight and I've got to say, the scorecards were a joke. 145-139 twice??
The fight was much, much closer than that. I think Williams just about edged it, but Larry did come on later in the fight to create that element of doubt.
One judge had it for Holmes by a point, which is much more in line with what I saw. (But I had it for Williams by about the same margin.)

In any event, it does highlight what made Larry such a long-standing champ. In the majority of the fight, he was outsped and outjabbed by the younger, quicker Williams, but his tenaciousness and spirit kept him fighting back, landing some nice right hands and wicked body shots.
Williams' lack of experience at the top level showed, and I thought he coasted too much in the final three or four rounds, allowing Holmes to sneak a couple of rounds near the end.
I also thought that besides showing a great jab and good composure under the circumstances (being thumbed and cut) he didn't have a particularly effective or varied arsenal.
The jab kept Larry at bay and he did get into a couple of brief exchanges with the champ, but his right hand was largely ineffective and despite throwing some nice shots to the body early he became a head-hunter later in the fight, which limited his attacking options all the more.

This is a good fight to illustrate why the final three rounds of the old 15-rounders were considered the championship rounds.

 

You'd think that Pacheco, a physician, would have kept himself in better shape. But the guy was always very heavy, especially in his later years.

But yeah, Holmes didn't look fat at all in 1985.

 

The thing about guys known for being good jabbers is that they almost always establish their reputations for being good jabbers against shorter guys with less reach. During Holmes' reign, he was almost always the taller guy with the longer reach. And on the few occasions he fought tall guys with long arms, he typically struggled.

Not to say that Holmes didn't have a good jab, because he obviously did, but I think a lot of his success as a good jabber was simply based on physical advantages he held over most of his opponents. It wasn't like he was out jabbing 6'4" guys with 82" reaches on a regular basis.

 

An immediate rematch would have been nice. Does anyone remember what the public/press reaction was after the fight? I was too young to care at the time. Holmes should have rematched Williams instead of fighting Spinks.

 

Holmes defended his versions of the title 21times Only 4 of his challengers were more than an inch shorter.
Holmes out jabbed taller men in Cooney,Jones,Smith.

The reason he struggled with Willams was ;
Lack of preparation 2,Age.
Holmes jab looked good because it was good,maybe the best the heavyweight division has seen.

 

Well put

 

Like I said, I agree he had a good jab...But, he wasn't out there out jabbing guys like Bowe, Lewis, Klitschko -- or even guys like Pinklon Thomas.

 

I haven’t scored, but remember watching it. I felt Holmes edged it by 2-3 rounds, mainly because Holmes came on strong to close and Williams played it safe for the late rounds.

How one scored it can depend. What counts more for you, a quick non-damaging jab, or a solid body shot, and hard uppercuts?

Holmes landed the harder blows and pressed the action when needed, Williams might have landed a few more non damaging blows. Williams was hurt a few times, Holmes never was hurt.

The AP scored it 145-140 for Holmes. The judges had it 143-142 for Holmes, 146-139 for Holmes, and 146-139 for Holmes. The decision was fair, though I think the fight was a bit closer than 146-139.

 

the big thing with Larry's opposition is they were always putting him in with the catchers. Look at that title opposition list and name the guy that isn't highly susceptible to a jab. I mean there were more cathers than in major league baseball.

Now look at the guy's he didn't rematch or defend against. guess what they didn't do as much as a Scott Frank or Scott Ledoux?

Carl Williams had the best jab of anyone larry had ever fought, aside from the shot ali. but Muhammad didn't even throw what, 40 jabs the entire fight?

But they saw other flaws with williams and that's why Holmes was a prohibitive favorite going into the fight. And nobody was picking Carl Williams to win it. He was on par with the folks picking Mormeck over Klitschko.

But those big underdobs better have some real big backing if they want to win a decision over the champ. Hell, they need a ref that doesn't give a Lawrence Welk one and a two long count to get a ko.

But the Williams corner knew that going in.

 

I think so too.

They wanted a guy with far less skills than that and got the perfect opponent in Tangstad. A ton of good potential opponents and we get Tangstad.