What's the highest we can reasonably rank Evander Holyfield at heavywieght?

15 ish

 

if you have liston in there, you have to have Tyson. and Foreman? He beat Frazier and Norton? That is all. Marciano? Again where is Tyson? and Holyfield

 

Ruiz was definitely a better scalp than Grant, But Evender went 1-1-1.

I don't see Grant EVER beating Lewis.

Likewise, Bowe, (1-1-1) IMO, all things considered, won the series.

Foreman and Holmes. Nice names, but Evander was in his twenties and both dudes were in their 40's. I wouldn't give him much chance against either one if they'd been prime.



Buster ? A one trick pony who came in in horrible shape and unmotivated.

Some good names no doubt, but all things considered, I don't see Evander's resume as being on a par with Lennox's.

And Lennox scored a near- shutout first time they met.

Keep that in mind when you bring up Foreman And Holmes, and multiply that idea by two, in their cases !:yep


I have Evander in the 13-16 range and Lennox at 3 or 4.

 

Some might argue he's top 3 but it wouldn't be me.

I'd rank him in the 7-12 range.

However, on a p4p list and considering his accomplishments at cruiser, I'd rank him ahead of many of the heavyweights, who I rank ahead of him on the ATG heavyweight list. The comp he fought may have been second only to Ali.

 

Anyway, I'd like to add that one thing that added to his greatness is his longevity.

He entered the ring rankings of heavyweights in 1987, at no. 2, just below Tyson and Champ Michael Spinks. He left the top 10 only in 2002! That's 15 years!

During that time, he only left the rankings at the end of 1994, due to is "heart attack" against Moorer, and his temporary retirement!

In fact, only a handful of heavyweights have greater longevity at the top! And during the 1990s, he was often ranked number one among heavyweights!

 

How can we not consider PEDs, especially steroids & HGH, when considering a fighter?

IF a guy transformed his body & capacities to an extent through the use in large part of illegal substances, then he almost certainly got wins he would not have otherwise. Like being able to muscle Tyson around.

This does not deny consideration to hard work & heart. But if a guy wins through cheating also-& it seems more dramatic to transform abilities than clinging/head butting/pushing sometimes in the ring...

Don't we need to hold that against their legacy & what they would be able to achieve H2H under fair conditions?

Does anyone doubt he used, & significantly?

Thus I at least cannot consider him top 10.

 

He's 1-4 against Bowe and Lewis (anyone with a brain knows he lost the first Lewis fight). Holyfield was great but he was never really ever the man at heavyweight. He was inconsistent in title defences and there always seemed to be a fighter that was better than him.
He also happened to be a steroid cheater which tarnishes his legacy a bit.

I have him at about #9 or so.

 

Tyson was regarded as the best fighter in the world in 96, better than Lewis and Bowe. It wasn't just past mystique, he looked awesome against Bruno and Mathis Jr. His newly developed right cross was a very deadly weapon.

I can see a case but it rightfully will never be seen that way. A fat Riddick Bowe is never going to be seen as the fighting machine that even 96 Tyson was.

 

-Since we are talking about bad decisions, Holyfield deserved that last fight against Ruiz.

-Not the most sound logic. A better fighter is going to produce a more even series, nevermind Holyfield was about 40 at this point.

-Bowe won the series but we all know Holyfield was not right in the rubber match. No sense pretending otherwise.

-Doesn't matter. Foreman and Holmes were major players in the 90s scene. Holmes performances against Mercer and McCall in contrast to Lewis...is interesting.

-How so?

-I didn't say Holyfield is better than Foreman and Holmes prime H2H. You are the one using that logic.

-That's comical.

 

It hurts the integrity of the whole contest, imo.
It's absurd.

 

Which heavyweights of his era can we say were not on performance-enhancing substances?

 

I think Evander clearly won the third fight.

First fight, Ruiz may have deserved.

 

I have him #9 all time head to head.
1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Larry Holmes
4.Lennox Lewis
5.George Foreman
6.Vitali Klitschko
7.Wladimir Klitschko
8.Riddick Bowe
9.Evander Holyfield
10.Mike Tyson

 

You know, looking back, its even worse than I remember.

He doesn't have any stomach visible. How the hell was this allowed? No wander Evander couldn't get anything going in the first fight.


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