Who are the top ten heavyweights who never received a lineal title shot?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Jan 14, 2014.


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  1. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Yes, but he see's a therapist regularly on account of this, and he's also on strong prescription medication.
     
    cuchulain, Jul 2, 2014
    cuchulain, Jul 2, 2014
    #76
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No it is, trust me. I post and email more about this than any other single subject now and you are literally the only person to have made this claim in a little more than a year. The only people who try to claim otherwise are doing so because they thought that Vitali WAS lin when Wlad fought Chagaev and haven't taken an interest since.

    You're almost unique in your point of view and my experience of this matter is likely as wide as anyone living :lol: That's not a boast, it's terrible. But it's true.
     
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    #77
  3. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well if that is the case, I am a little disturbed, not least because a tradition that was part of the sport for a century and quarter is no longer respected.
     
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    #78
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It is though. Because new lineage as I understand has been achieved when the top two contenders meet to decide it. Not this strange mish-mash you recognise. When Miguel Canto met Shoji Oguma in 1974, a new lineage was established, not because of boxing tradition, not because the fight was spun, but because the top two flyweights in the world met in the ring. There was no "special rival", just Canto fighting a guy who was unranked a year before and beating him for lineage.

    Hopkins-Trinidad.

    Klitschko-Povetkin

    There's no secret respect, no magic powder. Just the two best. Like, to my knowledge, it's always been.
     
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    #79
  5. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Again that is where you do not understand. Lineage 9 times out of 10 is not about the best fighting the best. It is dealing with the hand fate has given it. Hopkins/Trinidad was a fight to decide the best Middleweight, not the linear champ. That was because lineage had gone a very weird route (at the time) at 160lbs. De La Hoya holding the linear Middleweight claim at that time.
     
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    #80
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Can you give me an example of a fight from the last twenty years that did establish new lineage,in your opinion, outside the heavyweight class?
     
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    #81
  7. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not a classic eight division but the 200lbs 'Cruiserweight' Division, saw their first linear champion created since the days of Holyfield when O'Neil Bell beat Mormeck in their first bout.
     
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    #82
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    And what made this so clearly different to Hopkins-Trinidad?
    And what indicated the universal public recognition that you don't think existed for Hopkins-Trinidad?
     
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    #83
  9. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    When Hopkins fought Trinidad, Oscar de la Hoya was linear champ, a line going back 23 years.
     
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    #84
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    When Hopkins fought Trinidad, Oscar de la Hoya was the middleweight champion of the world?

    In 2001, Oscar De La Hoya was the lineal middleweight champion of the world?

    Can you explain this one like you're talking to an idiot, please?
     
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    #85
  11. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In 2001 Oscar De La Hoya was the linear Middleweight Champion. Insane?! I accept, much like Foreman's reign in the 90s, but as I have repeatedly written, and this proves my point perfectly: Linear is not always about who is the best, it is about who beat whom from a certain period in time. It continues until a permanent retirement or a jump up in weight stops the linear champ from defending the crown.
     
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    #86
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    OK, can you show me an another source that has Oscar De La Hoya as linear middleweight champion in 2001?

    Cyberboxing, Ring, TBRB all...disagree.
     
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    #87
  13. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Apologies, I did not read that properly: I will explain and I do not need to do it like I am talking to an idiot, because I am not:

    In 1977 Carlos Monzon calls it a day.

    Valdez and Briscoe as the top two contenders fight for the vacant Middleweight line, with Rodrigo getting the nod.

    Valdez lost his claim to Corro, who in turn loses his claim to Antuofermo.

    Vito loses his claim to Minter; Boom Boom to the Marvelous One.

    Hagler then 'loses' to Leonard.

    His sweetness calls it a day, but surprise, surprise is lying and comes back. No one had a claim to a new lineage thus when Leonard fought Duran (fight three) both weighed in at Middleweight and so it counted as a defence for Ray.

    Ray loses to Norris, Norris loses and regains lineage against both Simon Brown and Luis Santana.

    Terrible Terry loses the title for the final time against Keith Mullings, who loses to the Spaniard Castillejo, who loses to De La Hoya...
     
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    #88
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't mean you're an idiot, I mean explain it to me carefully which you did. Thanks.

    Can you show me another website that respects this lineage? That reprints it?
     
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    McGrain, Jul 2, 2014
    #89
  15. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I wrote that out myself, using boxrec to make sure I made no mistakes.
     
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    TBooze, Jul 2, 2014
    #90
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