Did Jack Root Deserve A Shot At Vacant Title?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jul 3, 2014.


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  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jack Root fought Marvin Hart on the 3rd of July1905 they were contesting the world's Heavyweight title left vacant by the retirement of Jim Jeffries. I've no problem with Hart being one of the men in there he had a victory over Jack Johnson on his ledger,whatever the rights and wrongs of that decision may have been.
    My query is did Jack Root deserve to be in the other corner? Taking a look at Roots record up to then, he had the following results.



    Wdec George Gardner
    Wko8rd Jim Flynn
    Drew George Gardner
    L ko12rds George Gardner
    W10 Kid McCoy
    Wdec 6rds Marvin Hart
    Ltko 12 George Gardner
    W dsq over George Gardner

    At the time Root fought Hart,
    Jack Johnson had beaten ;
    Fred Russell
    Sam McVey x3
    Joe Jeannette
    Sandy Ferguson x4
    Joe Butler
    Morris Harris
    George Gardner
    Frank Childs
    Jim Jeffords
    Black Billx2
    Denver Ed Martin x2
    Anyone think he deserved Root's shot?
    Or, was it that he was perceived to have eliminated himself by not closing the show against Hart?
     
    mcvey, Jul 3, 2014
    mcvey, Jul 3, 2014
    #1
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I am sceptical, but it would not be impossible to convince me otherwise.
     
    janitor, Jul 3, 2014
    janitor, Jul 3, 2014
    #2
  3. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Johnson eliminated himself by being black.

    Root had only 2 losses, recently avenged, he had a victory over Hart, and folks thought he was a very good boxer/puncher. I think he had over 46 victories on his resume.
     
    apollack, Jul 3, 2014
    apollack, Jul 3, 2014
    #3
  4. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Also was not the fight there to supposedly set up a Root title reign?
     
    TBooze, Jul 3, 2014
    TBooze, Jul 3, 2014
    #4
  5. doug.ie

    doug.ie 'Classic Boxing Society' Full Member

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    strange days..


    Former World Heavyweight Champion Tommy Burns, while he was reigning champion, fought two men in one night in 1906 and both bouts were billed as for the World Heavyweight Championship.
    The opponents were James J Walker (0-5-0) and Jim O'Brien (0-1-0). Neither opponent had won a bout before their fights with Burns that night.
    Both matches received the only official sanctioning of their day, billing by the promoters and newspapers as being for the World Title.
    Burns won both bouts by 1st round KO.
    Neither of the opponents ever boxed again.

    http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=10744&cat=boxer
     
    doug.ie, Jul 3, 2014
    doug.ie, Jul 3, 2014
    #5
  6. Monogamous STD

    Monogamous STD Ya know, Quasimoto predicted all this. Full Member

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    But were those the actual records or just what boxrec has verified so far?
     
    Monogamous STD, Jul 3, 2014
    Monogamous STD, Jul 3, 2014
    #6
  7. doug.ie

    doug.ie 'Classic Boxing Society' Full Member

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    i actually looked it up and newspaper reports said they didnt have a win between them...i'll see if i can find again.

    you're right to question boxrec though.
     
    doug.ie, Jul 3, 2014
    doug.ie, Jul 3, 2014
    #7
  8. grumpy old man

    grumpy old man Well-Known Member Full Member

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    And we thought boxing world titles were a joke these days. Boy, were people who paid to watch those "world title" fights ever hoodwinked out of their hard-earned.
     
    grumpy old man, Jul 3, 2014
    grumpy old man, Jul 3, 2014
    #8
  9. Monogamous STD

    Monogamous STD Ya know, Quasimoto predicted all this. Full Member

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    That's friggin awful. Wow. Yeah, if you find a link to it, I would appreciate sharing that with me/us. I've seen that on boxrec but I just assumed it was due to partial records that were too hard to verify yet. Never thought they actually got title shots with no-win records. People are having an (understandable) sh*tfit over Danny Garcia's next fight as we speak. This is so much worse than that. Hard to believe.
     
    Monogamous STD, Jul 3, 2014
    Monogamous STD, Jul 3, 2014
    #9
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Fortythree fights, 2 losses, 3 draws,2 no contests. So 36 wins. The two losses and one of the draws were to Gardner.Johnson beat Gardner over 20rds dropping him twice ,which of course you already know.
     
    mcvey, Jul 3, 2014
    mcvey, Jul 3, 2014
    #10
  11. doug.ie

    doug.ie 'Classic Boxing Society' Full Member

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    doug.ie, Jul 3, 2014
    doug.ie, Jul 3, 2014
    #11
  12. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If memory serves me right, Root was the favourite in the Hart fight. He was definitely up there with O'Brien, Johnson, Hart and Gardner as the public stand outs. Hindsight isn't kind to his case but at the time he was a decent pick.
     
    mattdonnellon, Jul 3, 2014
    mattdonnellon, Jul 3, 2014
    #12
  13. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    BTW I'm sure Walker had a few wins not that it changes matters much.
     
    mattdonnellon, Jul 3, 2014
    mattdonnellon, Jul 3, 2014
    #13
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Walker?:huh
     
    mcvey, Jul 3, 2014
    mcvey, Jul 3, 2014
    #14
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson had comprehensively beaten Gardner dropping him twice in1902 when Jack was not much more than a novice.

    Gardner had kod Root twice , drawn with him twice ,and losing twice.
    Gardner definitely should rank below Johnson in1905,Johnson hadnt lost a fight in 4 years.

    Three months before Root fought Hart for the vacant title O Brien lost to middleweight Hugo Kelly.
     
    mcvey, Jul 3, 2014
    mcvey, Jul 3, 2014
    #15
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