Joe Bugner

Joe was a good fighter when he put his mind to it. He had the ability to have beaten the 'white hopes' that you mention but only if he was fully on

 

The Middleton and Bodell losses hit his standing hard, I think.

 

Bugner was a clever man. He had talent. He had size. He had a lot going for him. Most of all he knew his limits and this was the clever part. He understood how professional boxing worked. The circuits. The levels. How a fighter works his way up and tests himself outside of his comfort zone. Most of all he knew that Fighters burn out trying to win fights outside their comfort zone that they end up losing anyway. He felt it wasn't worth putting it all on the line outside the comfort zone. It was worth surviving and getting though it. Not necessarily winning because you still get paid the same if you lose taking a beating or lose going through the motions.

Joe quickly worked out he could always beat the b level guys but that it was not worth hurting himself against the A level. He needed to meet the A level to make A level money, but to him it was never going to be do or die. Against the best he would survive, get through it. Look forward to the next fight.

When you weigh it up he realised it was about money. If your not quite convinced you can be champion there has to a future after the title shot. Being champion means money but having to retire means no money. If you don't win the title and end up having to retire because you get hurt trying to win, why try to win?

I think this was his philosophy. Joe was not deluded. He understood when he had to win, who he could beat, who he couldn't beat and who he had to fight to make the most money. If you look at his career. Joe Bugner was a sucsess. He had a happy ending. Each time he ran out of money he relaunched his career and made another fortune.

 

Well thought out and written! I'd have him very close in standing to the in his prime Cooper, solidly top ten but decidedly below the champions. His losses to Frazier and Lyle to me were a nutshell of what Choklab wrote here, he had the skills to possibly win decisions in both bouts but never made the risks needed to do so. He did as well as his abilities allowed against Ali, was competitive and went the distances with no trouble but was no real threat to take the wins. I think on a motivated day he could beat all those mentioned and maybe a less then his best Quarry and the like also.

 

Yes, we will never know if Joe really had it because he was not prepared to show it. His choice, he still had the balls to take those fights and win all the necessary stepping stone matches along the way but in the end it was only money that counted. It was his neck on the line so it was his prerogative.

Micky Duff said the morning after losing to Ali there was absolutely no disappointment from Joe. The morning after the night before Bugner was already up and splashing about in the hotel pool like he was on holiday. Not a care in the world.. on his day off.

 

Good post.

As we all know, Joe was the only man to go the distance with both Ali & Frazier, and he managed it twice with Ali.

 

Grumpy, yep he did although this was against a slow smokeless Joe with little killer instinct, when Frazier dumped Bugner he had a clear opening to land a second left hook to the head as he slumped to the canvas but held the punch in mid-flight. When Cosell I beleave asked him why he did this Frazier responded that he didn't want his mama to say he was a bad boy, definitely no longer the once on fire left hook machine.

 

Frazier was 29-1 and only 29 years old when he beat Bugner.

 

Joe Bugner did have plenty of skills and talent, but lacked the fire in the belly.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Joe was the only man to go the distance with both Ali & Frazier.

Forensic dissection of the fact won't change it.

 

Apologies. It was really directed at our friend who described the Frazier who Bugner went the distance with as a "slow smokeless Joe with little killer instinct."

Which is an opinion you and I obviously don't share :good